RE: FreeOCP

Dear Seniors

Most of U felt bad it seems !

When we are generalising U shouldn't bring case by case example

Rao

--

On Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:45:22  
 Rachel Carmichael wrote:


>Jeff,

>

>Forgive me for jumping in on your rant, but I didn't see the original 

>message.

>

>All -

>

>I do love this quote from the original email:

>

>"In my humble opinion, any OCP DBA with experience is lot better than a OCP 

>DBA without experience or an experienced DBA without OCP."

>

>Really? Let's see.... I've been working as a DBA for 10+ years. I have met 

>DBAs with OCP and experience, DBAs with experience and no OCP and DBAs with 

>OCP and no experience.

>

>OCP does not in and of itself confer anything. You can pass the tests and 

>never have used the products that the tests are about. I passed the 8.0 to 

>8i upgrade without ever having worked with RMAN, partitioned tables, 

>Advanced Queuing, local and global partitioned indexes etc -- I hadn't 

>worked with 8i at ALL. What I *did* have were some hours spent at 

>conferences listening to people present on these topics, and a really good 

>ability to guess on standardized tests.  I passed the 7.3 to 8.0 upgrade the 

>same way.

>

>So I have OCP and it still does not mean that I have experience in these 

>things.

>

>Jeff is right -- what counts is what the person knows, not how he/she 

>learned it. The best explanation I have ever heard was from Michael Abbey 

>who said "OCP will get you in the door, but it's up to you and your 

>abilities to keep you there".

>

>All OCP does is give upper management a warm and fuzzy (and often incorrect) 

>feeling about the abilities of the candidate.

>

>I don't look to see OCP on a resume before I interview someone. I don't 

>reject the candidate if it is there, but it doesn't get you in the door to 

>see me. Your resume does.

>

>End of *MY* rant -- thanks Jeff :)

>

>Rachel

>

>>From: Jeffery Stevenson <jeff_at_mpv.com>

>>Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com

>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>

>>Subject: RE: FreeOCP

>>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 06:41:28 -0800

>>

>>   Every person should be judged on their own individual merits...a veteran

>>DBA without OCP might have a box at home (or at work) where they take the

>>latest and greatest and play with all the new features to figure out how

>>they work and see what kind of advantages they bring.  You could have a DBA

>>with lots of years of experience recorded and an OCP that has just been

>>soaking up money in a big contract for a consulting firm somewhere (and not

>>really doing much), but they've had lots of time to take the tests (until

>>they passed them all).  There are too many variables in this world to judge

>>a situation without getting all of the details...keeping that in mind, I

>>cannot agree with your viewpoint that an OCP DBA with experience is going 

>>to

>>be better than any other DBA--every situation is different.  When

>>interviewing other DBAs, I might make initial judgements after reviewing

>>their resume, but (unless that resume is really, really bad) I won't rule

>>them out until I've had a chance to talk with them.  The DBA market is a

>>tight market, why rule out any potentially good employee/help based on 

>>years

>>of experience or a piece of paper?  None of that can tell me exactly what

>>kind of heart, will, intelligence, common sense, personality, or learning

>>ability a person has.  OCP and years of experience have definite merits 

>>when

>>trying to get HR's attention and jacking prices in contracts, but if the

>>person behind all that isn't really that good...

>>

>>   Sorry about the rant, but I just couldn't sit back and listen to all 

>>this

>>without saying something...

>>

>>Jeffery Stevenson

>>Chief Databeast Tamer

>>Medical Present Value, Inc.

>>Austin, TX

>>

>>-----Original Message-----

>>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 4:51 PM

>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

>>

>>

>>Hi friends!

>>  There is a lots of talk about Paper DBAs on this message board. With due

>>respect to all the veteran DBAs without OCP and new DBAs with OCP, I would

>>like to make few comments from my own personal experience (spanning 9 

>>years+

>>in USA, Europe and India)

>>

>>  I have come across lots of long time DBAs with no OCP, who frown on OCP

>>DBAs. Working closely with them, I noticed that these longs really count 

>>the

>>hours to bill the clients. To my dismay, I came across 10+ years Oracle 

>>DBAs

>>who had no clue about OPS, Partitioning, Snapshots, Stand by etc... They

>>have gained experience over the years only because the client could not 

>>find

>>a better alternative.

>>

>>  At the same time, in the interviews and at work, I come across lots of 

>>new

>>OCP DBAs who can do the job, but need lots support and help from the other

>>DBAs. (It is sort of baby sitting).

>>

>>  I was a DBA without OCP for long time and I had no problem in finding 

>>jobs

>>without OCP. After I started preparing for OCP, I came to know of so many

>>things that I did not know before. In my humble opinion, any OCP DBA with

>>experience is lot better than a OCP DBA without experience or an 

>>experienced

>>DBA without OCP.

>>

>>  OCP helped me as a DBA to understand things that I did not know before. 

>>It

>>took lots of time, confidence and enthusiasm to be a OCP DBA and change my

>>self in the process.

>>

>>  Without OCP, I would have been a Pumpkin DBA, doing clueless things in a

>>random and unilateral way. Let's face it... OCP or No OCP is a matter of

>>choice. But it helps to be OCP than be left-out and looking at SOUR

>>GRAPES!!!

>>

>>Rama

>>OCP DBA with experience!

>>

>>

>>--

>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com

>>--

>>Author: Rama Malladi

>>   INET: rmalladi_at_inteliant.com

>>

>>Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051

>>San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

>>--------------------------------------------------------------------

>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message

>>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in

>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L

>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may

>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

>>--

>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com

>>--

>>Author: Jeffery Stevenson

>>   INET: jeff_at_mpv.com

>>

>>Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051

>>San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

>>--------------------------------------------------------------------

>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message

>>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in

>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L

>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may

>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

>

>_____________________________________________________________________________________

>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

>

>-- 

>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com

>-- 

>Author: Rachel Carmichael

>  INET: carmichr_at_hotmail.com

>

>Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051

>San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

>--------------------------------------------------------------------

>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message

>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in

>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L

>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may

>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).