Message-Id: <10660.120236@fatcity.com> From: Satar Naghshineh Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:02:49 -0700 Subject: RE: Datafiles on NFS mount This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03ECF.54083380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Back then they had the fiber enabled filers as well. The information I posted was straight from the horse's mouth from almost 2 years ago. I mean this guy drives the database market for NetApp (it doesn't get any higher than that). If things have changed since my meeting with him, then so be it. As far as Yahoo goes, do you know exactly how they are set up and what the filers are really used for? Regards, Satar > -----Original Message----- > From: Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha [SMTP:gajav@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 9:01 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Datafiles on NFS mount > > Dear list, > > I am not so sure whether that claim is true. In fact quite to > the contrary. Almost all of Yahoo runs on Net Apps., with > literally 1000s of e-mail users and other web-users it portrays > an OLTP environment. There are many other sites that use Net > Apps. > > If any there some issues with D/W environments in the past 2 > years. With the introduction of the F840 and F840c, that is now > a moot point, as it is 100% fiber-enabled, and both OLTP and D/W > are supported without any issues. The issue with performance > comes about only when the required network infrastructure is not > put in place. Otherwise, it is as reliable as a regular > filesystem (NFS 2.0 and 3.0) are significantly more reliable > since they use TCP for their communications instead of UDP. > > Net Apps. have also come a long way in supporting enterprise > class storage (upto 12 Tb) on a F840c and the performance on > these appliances have come a long way. They are definitely a key > player in the future storage market and their Oracle market > share is growing. > > Cheers, > > Gaja > > > --- Satar Naghshineh > wrote: > > I held a meeting with NetApp's Director of Database Marketing. > > He was in > > charge of justifying why NetApp filers were a perfect solution > > for Oracle > > databases. I don't know if the situation changed from 2 years > > ago, but he > > stated that he didn't want OLTP databases to be running on > > their filers > > because of performance problems that the customers might > > experience. He > > insisted that their solution is perfect for DSS and DW > > databases. If your > > company has the money to purchase a netapp filer (along with > > their > > over-priced hard drives) and is in a Mix environment (NT and > > Unix), then > > NetApp is a good solution. One thing I liked about NetApp was > > their ease of > > database administration. > > > > By the way, isn't a "hard lockup" considered a problem with > > NetApp? > > > > Regards, > > Satar > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Tom Tyson [SMTP:tomtysonjr@yahoo.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:56 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Subject: RE: Datafiles on NFS mount > > > > > > About 6 months ago on OTN there was an article discussing an > > > implimentation of > > > Oracle using a NetApp servers using NFS mounts. The > > implementation was > > > using a > > > modified NFS client done by VA Linux. There was some 500 > > databases > > > running > > > with the datafiles residing on the NetApp. I wouldn't > > typically put a > > > datafile > > > on a NFS mount, but after reading this I felt a little more > > comfortable > > > with > > > trying this out. Since then, I have tried this out on a > > HPUX-11 system > > > running > > > 8.1.6 EE, and have had no problems with it.. even had a hard > > lockup on the > > > Netapp and all was well after restarting the netapp and > > database server. > > > > > > Tom Tyson > > > > > > > > > --- Satar Naghshineh > > wrote: > > > > I researched this same subject roughly two years ago, and > > I learned that > > > > Oracle does not support NFS datafiles. However, they do > > support/certify > > > some > > > > vendors of NFS systems (Filers), such as NetApp. > > > > > > > > Did you consider raping/bastardizing the other server's > > available hard > > > > drives to add more disk space to the Oracle server? Or you > > can NFS Mount > > > the > > > > other server and move static files and old backups. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Satar > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: John Kanagaraj [SMTP:JKanagaraj@mfi.com] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 9:26 PM > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > Subject: Re: Datafiles on NFS mount > > > > > > > > > > > Is Oracle 8.1.6 capable of creating and using a > > datafile > > > > > > on an NFS-mounted disk on another machine? We have two > > > > > > Sun machines (OS block size is 8k on both); the > > machine running > > > > > > Oracle is short on disk, while there is plenty > > available on the > > > > > > second machine. We are planning to purchase another > > larger machine, > > > > > > but in the meantime would like to get by for a short > > period without > > > > > > investing more in the present machines. We are not > > using hot backups > > > > > > (it's a small datawarehouse). What problems occur when > > either of the > > > > > > machines is rebooted? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > > > > > > AFAIK, Oracle does NOT support NFS based datafiles. My > > understanding > > > is > > > > > that this is because there is no guarantee that the > > write request made > > > > > to the local OS is complete when the remote OS is the > > one that > > > performs > > > > > it. The local OS returns a positive signal once the > > request is > > > > > acknowledged, but not necessarily completed by the > > remote OS. I > > > wouldn't > > > > > do it - and Oracle will not support it... > > > > > > > > > > John Kanagaraj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > -- > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > > -- > > > Author: Tom Tyson > > > INET: tomtysonjr@yahoo.com > > > > > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) > > 538-5051 > > > San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / > > Mailing Lists > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail > > message > > > to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') > > and in > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). > > You may > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like > > subscribing). > > > > > ===== > Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha > Director, Storage Management Products, Quest Software Inc. > Office : (972)-304-1170, E-mail : gajav@yahoo.com > > Author - Oracle Tuning 101 by Osborne McGraw-Hill > "Opinions and views expressed are my own and not of Quest" > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha > INET: gajav@yahoo.com > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03ECF.54083380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Datafiles on NFS mount

Back then they had = the fiber enabled filers as well. The information I posted was straight = from the horse's mouth from almost 2 years ago. I mean this guy drives = the database market for NetApp (it doesn't get any higher than that). =

If things have = changed since my meeting with him, then so be it. As far as Yahoo goes, = do you know exactly how they are set up and what the filers are really = used for?

Regards,
Satar

    -----Original Message-----
    From:   Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha = [SMTP:gajav@yahoo.com]
    Sent:   Wednesday, October 25, 2000 9:01 PM
    To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject:       = RE: Datafiles on NFS mount

    Dear list,

    I am not so sure whether that claim is = true. In fact quite to
    the contrary. Almost all of Yahoo = runs on Net Apps., with
    literally 1000s of e-mail users and = other web-users it portrays
    an OLTP environment. There are many = other sites that use Net
    Apps.

    If any there some issues with D/W = environments in the past 2
    years.  With the introduction of = the F840 and F840c, that is now
    a moot point, as it is 100% = fiber-enabled, and both OLTP and D/W
    are supported without any issues. The = issue with performance
    comes about only when the required = network infrastructure is not
    put in place. Otherwise, it is as = reliable as a regular
    filesystem (NFS 2.0 and 3.0) are = significantly more reliable
    since they use TCP for their = communications instead of UDP.

    Net Apps. have also come a long way in = supporting enterprise
    class storage (upto 12 Tb) on a F840c = and the performance on
    these appliances have come a long = way. They are definitely a key
    player in the future storage market = and their Oracle market
    share is growing.

    Cheers,

    Gaja


    --- Satar Naghshineh = <Satar.Naghshineh@irvine.mellesgriot.com>
    wrote:
    > I held a meeting with NetApp's = Director of Database Marketing.
    > He was in
    > charge of justifying why NetApp = filers were a perfect solution
    > for Oracle
    > databases. I don't know if the = situation changed from 2 years
    > ago, but he
    > stated that he didn't want OLTP = databases to be running on
    > their filers
    > because of performance problems = that the customers might
    > experience. He
    > insisted that their solution is = perfect for DSS and DW
    > databases. If your
    > company has the money to = purchase a netapp filer (along with
    > their
    > over-priced hard drives) and is = in a Mix environment (NT and
    > Unix), then
    > NetApp is a good solution. One = thing I liked about NetApp was
    > their ease of
    > database administration.
    >
    > By the way, isn't a "hard = lockup" considered a problem with
    > NetApp?
    >
    > Regards,
    > Satar
    >
    > > -----Original = Message-----
    > > = From:       Tom Tyson = [SMTP:tomtysonjr@yahoo.com]
    > > = Sent:       Wednesday, October 25, 2000 = 3:56 AM
    > > To: Multiple recipients of = list ORACLE-L
    > > Subject:    = RE: Datafiles on NFS mount
    > >
    > > About 6 months ago on OTN = there was an article discussing an
    > > implimentation of
    > > Oracle using a NetApp = servers using NFS mounts.  The
    > implementation was
    > > using a
    > > modified NFS client done by = VA Linux.  There was some 500
    > databases
    > > running
    > > with the datafiles residing = on the NetApp.  I wouldn't
    > typically put a
    > > datafile
    > > on a NFS mount, but after = reading this I felt a little more
    > comfortable
    > > with
    > > trying this out.  = Since then, I have tried this out on a
    > HPUX-11 system
    > > running
    > > 8.1.6 EE, and have had no = problems with it.. even had a hard
    > lockup on the
    > > Netapp and all was well = after restarting the netapp and
    > database server.
    > >
    > > Tom Tyson
    > >
    > >
    > > --- Satar Naghshineh
    > = <Satar.Naghshineh@irvine.mellesgriot.com> wrote:
    > > > I researched this same = subject roughly two years ago, and
    > I learned that
    > > > Oracle does not = support NFS datafiles. However, they do
    > support/certify
    > > some
    > > > vendors of NFS systems = (Filers), such as NetApp.
    > > >
    > > > Did you consider = raping/bastardizing the other server's
    > available hard
    > > > drives to add more = disk space to the Oracle server? Or you
    > can NFS Mount
    > > the
    > > > other server and move = static files and old backups.
    > > >
    > > > Regards,
    > > > Satar
    > > >
    > > > > -----Original = Message-----
    > > > > From:   = John Kanagaraj [SMTP:JKanagaraj@mfi.com]
    > > > > Sent:   = Tuesday, October 24, 2000 9:26 PM
    > > > > = To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    > > > > = Subject:        Re: Datafiles on NFS = mount
    > > > >
    > > > > > Is Oracle = 8.1.6 capable of creating and using a
    > datafile
    > > > > > on an = NFS-mounted disk on another machine? We have two
    > > > > > Sun machines = (OS block size is 8k on both); the
    > machine running
    > > > > > Oracle is = short on disk, while there is plenty
    > available on the
    > > > > > second = machine. We are planning to purchase another
    > larger machine,
    > > > > > but in the = meantime would like to get by for a short
    > period without
    > > > > > investing = more in the present machines. We are not
    > using hot backups
    > > > > > (it's a = small datawarehouse). What problems occur when
    > either of the
    > > > > > machines is = rebooted?
    > > > >
    > > > > Hi Bill,
    > > > >
    > > > > AFAIK, Oracle = does NOT support NFS based datafiles. My
    > understanding
    > > is
    > > > > that this is = because there is no guarantee that the
    > write request made
    > > > > to the local OS = is complete when the remote OS is the
    > one that
    > > performs
    > > > > it. The local OS = returns a positive signal once the
    > request is
    > > > > acknowledged, but = not necessarily completed by the
    > remote OS. I
    > > wouldn't
    > > > > do it - and = Oracle will not support it...
    > > > >
    > > > > John = Kanagaraj
    > > > > 
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > = __________________________________________________
    > > Do You Yahoo!?
    > > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk = while you surf!  It's FREE.
    > > http://im.yahoo.com/
    > > --
    > > Please see the official = ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    > > --
    > > Author: Tom Tyson
    > >   INET: = tomtysonjr@yahoo.com
    > >
    > > Fat City Network = Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
    > 538-5051
    > > San Diego, = California        -- Public Internet = access /
    > Mailing Lists
    > >
    >
    ---------------------------------------------------------= -----------
    > > To REMOVE yourself from = this mailing list, send an E-Mail
    > message
    > > to: ListGuru@fatcity.com = (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
    > and in
    > > the message BODY, include a = line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
    > > (or the name of mailing = list you want to be removed from).
    > You may
    > > also send the HELP command = for other information (like
    > subscribing).
    >


    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha
    Director, Storage Management = Products, Quest Software Inc.
    Office : (972)-304-1170, E-mail : = gajav@yahoo.com

    Author - Oracle Tuning 101 by Osborne = McGraw-Hill
    "Opinions and views expressed = are my own and not of Quest"

    __________________________________________________=
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you = surf!  It's FREE.
    http://im.yahoo.com/
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L = FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Gaja Krishna = Vaidyanatha
      INET: gajav@yahoo.com

    Fat City Network = Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) = 538-5051
    San Diego, = California        -- Public Internet = access / Mailing Lists
    ---------------------------------------------------------= -----------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing =