Message-Id: <10571.113131@fatcity.com> From: Kimberly.smith@gmd.fujitsu.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:09:55 -0700 Subject: RE: WILL YOU GIVE PROGRAMMERS DBA ACCOUNT IF WE SAID YES? Actually at our site the developers are the first line of contact as well. They rarely have to call me. I used to be on a site that no matter what went wrong they always blamed the database. Sometimes they would not even be accessing the database and they would still blame it. That is the difference between working with well trained and experienced developers as opposed to those who are not so well trained. By the time I left the other site I had some of them actually checking their code first. Its a hard battle but one I think is worth going though at least once in your career so that you can appreciate this environment so much more. But I still don't give developers DBA... -----Original Message----- From: root@fatcity.com [mailto:root@fatcity.com]On Behalf Of Larry G. Elkins Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 6:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: WILL YOU GIVE PROGRAMMERS DBA ACCOUNT IF WE SAID YES? Larry, And some landlords let their properties deteriorate so badly that they are uninhabitable ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist since the analogy presented such a sitting duck target. I am *not* taking potshots at DBA's (FWIW, I used to be one), though I have run into a *couple* that might be called "slumlords", just as we have all run into some/many/all developers who are horrible "tenants". With regards to your comment on getting calls in the middle of the night, I've been involved with a handful of sites where the lead *developer* responsible for an application is the first contact. The thinking there was that if an error occurred, it was probably due to an application issue and the lead developer was better equipped at trouble-shooting the problem (the DBA's were typically overworked and had no time to learn about the individual apps). There was one site, though, were 99.9% of the failures were due to insufficient space issues (the DBA was *very* stingy about allocating space). The only problem was that he never monitored or trended space usage to know when to allocate more (and I kid you not, his response was "Why should I monitor space usage since we will find out when something fails. We will take care of it then". His manager backed him on this. Uggh!). After I received numerous 3:00 AM calls over a few months, all due to insufficient space, the *DBA* became the first contact for any problems. After a while, space problems never cropped up. Imagine that ;-). I have had the good fortune to work with a number of great DBA's over the years. I am working with some right now. It's a good thing when the barriers are broken down and the development, DBA, and systems staff all work as a team. And the DBA staff does not have to give in to outrageous requests for the groups to get along and work well together. The ones I'm working with right now are pretty tough and tight; but, they are also very responsive and helpful. Everyone's roles are very well defined, everyone understands, and no one complains. A very enjoyable and productive environment. I've gone one too long. I hope everyone has a good week. Oh yeah, in response to the original question in this thread, no way! Regards, Larry G. Elkins The Elkins Organization Inc. elkinsl@flash.net 214.954.1781 An analogy might be tenant / landlord. Developers "occupy" the database, but the DBA "owns" it. Some tenants will take care of the place and treat it as well as if they owned it; others will do whatever they like for the short haul and if something breaks due to neglect, hey that's the landlord's problem, let him/her come fix it. As if we have a two-second fix for everything. Larry Holder Senior Systems Analyst, Oracle Database Administrator The University of Tennessee at Martin Computer Center lholder@utm.edu (901) 587-7890 www.utm.edu/~lholder Saved by grace <>< Romans 8:38-39 -- Author: Larry G. Elkins INET: elkinsl@flash.net Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may