Re: PROD without TEST

Jack,

    I may have a slightly 'ovekilled' environment BUT we do take into consideration development, testing (both unit and integration) patching, conversion testing (data migration), QA and training. I also have an additional environment for myself - the DBA - to test backup and recovery scenarios as well as upgrades etc. etc. We are running Oracle Financials as well as 5 other applications with their own production instance. As a result, I have a total of 43 instances of Oracle distributed over 8 database servers supporting 6 production instances. Overkill ?? maybe but I can assure that by the time something gets into production it generally works. It may seem cumbersome but works surprisingly well. I am a little pushed when it comes time to refresh instances but as a result I have 99 % automated the process. It would be insane to risk the business for the lack of SOME testing environment - 'canned package' or not. We have had more problems (in test and QA) with our third party applications providers than our own in-house development. Good luck-- gotta have that test environment.

Chris Royce
Snr DBA
Jamestown, NC

David Lee wrote:

> Well said Jack!
> Now that I have the ammo you bet I am gonna be firing from both barrels.
>
> Thanks
>
> David
>
> >From: Jack Silvey <JSilvey_at_XOL.com>
> >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> >Subject: RE: PROD without TEST
> >Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:28:04 -0800
> >
> >I had the same fight with management in my last job many times. I supported
> >lots of canned apps, so the argument always was "but we won't be doing any
> >development."
> >
> >The reasons that they should not deny you a test server:
> >
> >(1) To test your backup and recovery strategy - where else can you do this?
> >By not allowing you to have a test server, they are CERTIFYING that your
> >backup and recovery strategy IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE flawless. Let them think
> >long and hard about taking responsibility for the fact that the database is
> >unrecoverable and that the data is lost. DBAs can always find another job,
> >middle management can't.
> >
> >Get this one in email form, and tack it to the wall. They are PREVENTING
> >you
> >from testing your recovery.
> >
> >(2) They are CERTIFYING that all code sent to you by the application vendor
> >will run flawlessly with your paticular combination of hardware and
> >software.
> >
> >(3) They are CERTIFYING that any patches sent to you by the database vendor
> >will work flawlessly.
> >
> >(4) They are CERTIFYING that any patches sent to you by the operating
> >system
> >vendor will work flawlessly.
> >
> >(5) They are CERTIFYING that they will never need to upgrade any software
> >on
> >the production server, or if they do, that any and all software upgrades
> >that you perform will be flawless and will never need to be tested first.
> >Let them ponder for a while about what will happen when the vendor sells
> >them the latest and greatest upgrade and it does not work in your system.
> >You will have to take the server offline for an indeterminate period to
> >roll
> >everything back, assuming your untested recovery will work!
> >
> >(6) They are CERTIFYING that they will never require any development or
> >customization of the software on the server, or if they DO need
> >development,
> >they are CERTIFYING that ANY development that occurs will NEVER compromise
> >the integrity of the production data.
> >
> >(7) They are CERTIFYING that if any of the above is not true, you will be
> >able to hack the prodcucion server until you find out what is true.
> >
> >If you inform the world via email (nicely, of course, not CAPITALIZATING
> >everything IN SIGHT), they might begin to discover that it is in their
> >personal best interest to get you a dev server and keep you away from prod!
> >
> >And if not, find a real shop where they understand the necessity of such
> >things, not a place where they are cheap and/or not in the know.
> >
> >And now I can fairly say that I have had my say today!
> >
> >:)
> >
> >Jack Silvey
> >ocp x 2
> >Senior @ xol.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 4:31 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >David,
> >
> >If you don't have test databases, where are the developers doing their
> >development and testing. I'm cringing here, waiting for you to say "in
> >production".... then I'll scream.
> >
> >You need to document to your management the possible problems. NOW. And be
> >prepared to fight over this.
> >
> >Rachel
> >
> >
> > >From: "David Lee" <dba_lee_at_HOTMAIL.COM>
> > >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > >Subject: PROD without TEST
> > >Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:25:22 -0800
> > >
> > >Hi All,
> > >This is more of a survey than a question, but how many of you DBAs out
> > >there who are administering production databases that don't have a test
> > >database to go with it?
> > >We are a new but rapidly changing shop and we have a bunch of small
> > >to medium size databases that are running without a test database. This
> > >makes DBA tasks like upgrade more difficult. I am having a hard time
> >trying
> > >to get the management to allocate the resources for this. I wonder how
> > >other
> > >DBAs are doing to deal with situations like this.
> > >
> > >TIA
> > >
> > >David
> > >________________________________________________________________________
> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > >--
> > >Author: David Lee
> > > INET: dba_lee_at_hotmail.com
> > >
> > >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> >________________________________________________________________________
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> >--
> >Author: Rachel Carmichael
> > INET: carmichr_at_hotmail.com
> >
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> >Author: Jack Silvey
> > INET: JSilvey_at_XOL.com
> >
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> ________________________________________________________________________
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>
> --
> Author: David Lee
> INET: dba_lee_at_hotmail.com
>
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> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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Received on Fri Jun 23 2000 - 11:19:03 CDT