Home » Other » Suggestions & Feedback » New sticky in the Newbie board!
New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #161790] Tue, 07 March 2006 03:54 Go to next message
Maaher
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To the mods: I've added a new sticky in the Newbie board about formatting posts. Feel free to edit or copy it!

MHE

[Updated on: Tue, 07 March 2006 03:54]

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Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227006 is a reply to message #161790] Tue, 27 March 2007 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maaher
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I've added another one. I haven't locked this one yet because I'd like to add forum alternatives for other databases (MySQL, ...).

Suggestions are welcome!

MHE
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227009 is a reply to message #227006] Tue, 27 March 2007 02:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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hm, so my locking it was not not necessary? Wink

But on a serious note: I doubt if it is usefull to have yet another sticky. Shouldn't this be added to the 'general' one?

[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2007 02:17]

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Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227015 is a reply to message #227009] Tue, 27 March 2007 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maaher
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Perhaps you're right. I'll do that.

MHE
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227031 is a reply to message #227015] Tue, 27 March 2007 03:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maaher
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I just saw Barabara's reply here. Does OraFAQ accept non-Oracle questions?

MHE
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227068 is a reply to message #227031] Tue, 27 March 2007 04:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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I'd say no.
If you look at the thread that lead to this discussion, you can see the OP ended up with a 'select top 5 salary' solution, which is a SQLServer/Sybase only solution.
I think accepting specific non-Oracle solutions only adds to the confusion. People will add non-Oracle questions without mentioning that fact. In my view, Barbara's solution is the best.
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227225 is a reply to message #227031] Tue, 27 March 2007 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Maaher wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 01:13
I just saw Barabara's reply here. Does OraFAQ accept non-Oracle questions?

MHE


I didn't realize there was any doubt in any doubt in anyone's mind on this subject. I thought we were all already on the same page. In the past, everyone has banned non-Oracle questions related to MySQL and SQL Server and MS-Access, as do all other Oracle forums that I know of. The standard response is usually to point out that, although there are ANSI SQL standards, the SQL is still very different and questions about other databases should be posted on their forums, not ours. I expect that forums for other databases would respond similarly if we posted Oracle questions there. The only question in my mind is whether to just lock such topics or delete the entire thread. Responding to such things sets a bad precedent. However, with newbies, it can sometimes be appropriate to get clarification as they may not know what database they have and may be referring to something by the wrong name. Also, there are exceptions where somebody needs to connect one database to the other or convert code that runs on another database to run on Oracle. In short, if it is related to Oracle, allow it, but if it is a purely SQL question for a non-Oracle database, then do not allow it.

I locked the recent non-Oracle post, explaining why, then received an email, requesting that I unlock it, responded repeating that I would not and why, then received another email from the user threatening to email everybody if I do not unlock it. I think it is time for Frank Naude to step in and ban this user before he can do that. Here is a copy of the latest email:


From : Saurabh Saxena <saurabh_12_23@rediffmail.com>
Reply-To : "Saurabh Saxena" <saurabh_12_23@rediffmail.com>
Sent : Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:54 AM
To : "Barbara Boehmer" <baboehme@hotmail.com>
Subject : Re: RE: Unlock the topic


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Hey,

I got only half answer and there are people willing to answer my NON-ORACLE question. How is it possible I am half...

Your duty is to protect your forum from harm contents, not to belive in lock/unlock; other wise I have to e-mail personally to each in the forum.

Thank you
Saurabh

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 Barbara Boehmer wrote :
>No, I will not unlock it. The OraFAQ forums are for Oracle questions only, not MS-Access questions. Non-Oracle questions are not allowed.
>
>
>
> From: saurabh_12_23@rediffmail.com
>Reply-To: saurabh_12_23@rediffmail.com
>To: baboehme@hotmail.com
>Subject: Unlock the topic
>Date: 26 Mar 2007 04:11:09 -0500
>
>Hi,
>
>Please unlock the topic "How to get either of two records?" (Id #225100)
>
>I am waiting to get some response for my question.
>
>Thank you
>Saurabh
>






[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2007 10:18]

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Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227251 is a reply to message #227225] Tue, 27 March 2007 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mahesh Rajendran
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Quote:
Your duty is to protect your forum from harm contents, not to belive in lock/unlock; other wise I have to e-mail personally to each in the forum.

That could get him into the hall of fame(funny posts Smile )
Are folks getting very demanding/pushy these days?
Or may that is just me getting old and grumpy? Smile
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227353 is a reply to message #227251] Wed, 28 March 2007 01:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maaher
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I never really thought about it, actually. But I've modified the 3 stickies in the SQL & PL/SQL fora to offer alternatives for the non-Oracle people.

After a good night and a cup of coffee I come to this conclusion.
You're right Barbara, we need to stand our ground: Not Oracle? Delete the thread, with a note to the OP that there are alternatives on the net, like MSDN. Locking will, indeed, set a precedent.

MHE

[Updated on: Thu, 29 March 2007 05:30]

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Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227378 is a reply to message #227353] Wed, 28 March 2007 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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Maybe it would be convenient to agree on more things amongst moderators, especially when there are more and more moderators.
Things like what should be in Newbies and what can stay in Expert (or, maybe, remove the difference altogether), what to do with questions that are clearly answered in the FAQ? Lock those?
Lock questions from people that seem to be too lazy to try things themselves? (since there always seems to be someone ending up spoonfeeding them)
Etcetera..
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227545 is a reply to message #227251] Wed, 28 March 2007 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Apparently this jerk is too stupid and stubborn to go to the MS-Access forum as directed and doesn't know when to give up and go away. Here is one of his latest emails:


From : Saurabh Saxena <saurabh_12_23@rediffmail.com>
Sent : Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:42 AM
To : <baboehme@hotmail.com>
CC : mrwankhade@gmail.com, vmaruvada@bhrigus.com, admin@orafaq.com
Subject : Re :RE: Please unlock the topic


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You are the worst christian in this world.
-Rabindra

You should be having inprisonment for whole life
Regards
Suresh

O! half MINDED! WHY DON'T YOU HELP MY FRIEND SAURABH?
Vijay

For now Barbara(Very Name), you should nulock the topic otherwise you will be considered as brain-less human being.





Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227546 is a reply to message #227545] Wed, 28 March 2007 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mahesh Rajendran
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Bunch of idiots.
Reminds me what is happening to Kathy
http://headrush.typepad.com/
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227554 is a reply to message #227378] Wed, 28 March 2007 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Frank wrote on Wed, 28 March 2007 00:10
Maybe it would be convenient to agree on more things amongst moderators, especially when there are more and more moderators.
Things like what should be in Newbies and what can stay in Expert (or, maybe, remove the difference altogether), what to do with questions that are clearly answered in the FAQ? Lock those?
Lock questions from people that seem to be too lazy to try things themselves? (since there always seems to be someone ending up spoonfeeding them)
Etcetera..


On one hand, it would be nice to have a general set of guidelines. On the other hand, it is good to allow moderators to use their own judgment for each individual situation. Some things can be decided with a simple yes or no, such as whether to allow non-Oracle questions. But, other things are much more subjective, such as what constitutes a newbie question. The OTN forums have just a SQL and PL/SQL forum. They don't separate SQL from PL/SQL or separate newbies from expert. That eliminates the problem. However, there may be a lot of readers who don't want to have to sift through the newbie stuff to read the latest expert questions and may appreciate the separation.

I once was a moderator/administrator on a non-computer board where no individual moderator was allowed to take any immediate independent action on their own. Every little thing, every problem with any user, required a week of discussion, followed by a 24-hour voting period, and by that time what started out as a minor issue had turned into a major problem. I was their computer guru and dealt mostly with setting up what the site owner wanted, not with the actual forum content. They have since revised their ways slightly. I think it is important to avoid a situation like that, by allowing moderators to take immediate independent action. There were a few valuable features that I set up for them on that board. I created a hidden forum that only the moderators could see, in order to discuss certain problems amongst ourselves. I also created a hidden forum for "posts pending deletion" that automatically deleted anything moved to it after a specified time period. Anything that a moderator wanted to delete, was moved to that forum, where it was automatically deleted after 30 days. If another moderator wanted to see what was deleted, they could then do so. If there were objections and somebody wanted it partially restored, it could be done. If a moderator deleted a thread, then requested that the user be banned, the thread was still available for the site owner to see why.

I think it is important that we allow for individual moderator decisions and support each other's decisions, especially in the gray areas.


Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227585 is a reply to message #161790] Wed, 28 March 2007 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlackSwan
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FWIW - I give TWO THUMBS UP to all the moderators of this forum.
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227632 is a reply to message #227554] Wed, 28 March 2007 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djmartin
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From Barbara's post (clipped)
I created a hidden forum that only the moderators could see ... I also created a hidden forum for "posts pending deletion" ... If another moderator wanted to see what was deleted, they could then do so. If there were objections and somebody wanted it partially restored, it could be done. If a moderator deleted a thread, then requested that the user be banned, the thread was still available for the site owner to see why.

I like the hidden/restricted moderator's forum ... there have been things I wanted to share with the 'seniors' but did not want to have shared with 'google'. Could a 'hidden/restricted forum' be hidden from 'search engines'?

The "posts pending deletion" forum would be great because I deleted the wrong thread one day and as a 'delete' is a 'delete', it could not be restored.

@Frank(?), can this forum sotfware automatically delete all the posts in a particular forum after 30 days? Can entry to a forum be restricted? If so, moderators could move an offending entry to this 'restricted and 30 days expiring' forum instead of killing the thread. Then if the thread was moved incorrectly it could be moved back.

David
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227688 is a reply to message #227632] Thu, 29 March 2007 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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Barbara, I totally agree with you that moderators should use their own judgment above all. I don't see the point in having moderators if they don't have the possibility to act immediately.
What I meant was mainly what you called 'a general set of guidelines'.

I also like the idea of being able to discuss ad hoc 'in private' how to deal with a particular issue. Now, when in doubt, I PM Frank Naude, which in turn works well too. He always reacts promptly, including his advise on how to deal with similar situations in the future.
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227693 is a reply to message #227546] Thu, 29 March 2007 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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Mahesh Rajendran wrote on Wed, 28 March 2007 17:34
Bunch of idiots.
Reminds me what is happening to Kathy
http://headrush.typepad.com/


Neutral

Speechless over what a few idiots can 'accomplish'...
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227946 is a reply to message #227693] Fri, 30 March 2007 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maaher
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I just can't stop! A new sticky has been added to Training & Certification. Remarks/suggestions are welcome.

MHE
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #227953 is a reply to message #227946] Fri, 30 March 2007 07:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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I just saw it. Looks good, nice work Maarten!
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #228705 is a reply to message #227953] Tue, 03 April 2007 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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What's the conclusion? Are non-Oracle related question allowed on OraFAQ Forum or not? I don't mean only database problems (MS SQL Server, MySQL etc.), but also different operating system questions ("I can't install Windows 95") and similar topics. Those are obviously not spam nor garbage, but - definitely are NOT Oracle related.

Are there any guidelines here?
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #228706 is a reply to message #228705] Tue, 03 April 2007 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mahesh Rajendran
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>>but also different operating system questions
IMO,
to some extent we can support them. Like a little help around with scripting (related to oracle) etc. But nothing like rebuilding the kernel/installing OS etc Smile
Regarding databases, anything except Oracle could be a no-no. Smile
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #228732 is a reply to message #228706] Wed, 04 April 2007 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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I see. So what to do with a topic like this recent one? Lock it? Delete it with an appropriate message to the OP? Act as if I ./fa/2133/0/ ?
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #228852 is a reply to message #228732] Wed, 04 April 2007 07:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mahesh Rajendran
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I usually would redirect them to the appropriate external forum and lock the thread.
May be Frank N. could give us a tip Smile
Re: New sticky in the Newbie board! [message #228862 is a reply to message #228852] Wed, 04 April 2007 07:48 Go to previous message
Littlefoot
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Indirectly, he did that (I've just seen this topic) - warned the OP and left the topic unlocked.

I guess that's it.
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