Home » Other » General » Concern with Application team (Oracle 11.2.0.3 ,Linux 5)
Concern with Application team [message #599064] Tue, 22 October 2013 01:06 Go to next message
suhasdba
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Hi,

I have a concern with application team. There is a seperate team for application and middleware and i am a core oracle DBA and often application team ask me to find out table name and user details, account details etc.. by just giving a specific value. I am not sure how to find table name and other details since there are many users and numerous tables in it. When i tell them that its not possible to find these details from database end by just knowing the value,app team is not convinced and they bounce back.

I am writing my concern here thinking that you seniors will help me on how to handle this scenario.

Thanks

[Updated on: Tue, 22 October 2013 01:13]

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icon3.gif  Re: Concern with Application team [message #599067 is a reply to message #599064] Tue, 22 October 2013 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/asktom/f?p=100:11:0::::P11_QUESTION_ID:5203164092530

Re: Concern with Application team [message #599093 is a reply to message #599067] Tue, 22 October 2013 03:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ThomasG
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What I have found to be a quicker way than doing a full-text search on the database in some form is to enable a trace on the dev/test environment, then let the devs access "their value" via the application, and look in the trace which tables / columns are accessed.

If they INSIST of you doing the full-text search. Well. A complete full-text search on an entire production-size database might easily take a few days. They need to know they either have the option to "think a few minutes" of "wait a few days for the brute-force approach" to get a result
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599140 is a reply to message #599064] Tue, 22 October 2013 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lalit Kumar B
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An apllication DBA is supposed to do it. As you say you are a core DBA, so your organisation does not have proper roles and responsibilities defined.
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599230 is a reply to message #599140] Wed, 23 October 2013 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
suhasdba
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Michel/Thomas,

I was looking for this kind of answer ( lalit answer) but in a more specific manner.I am looking for answer in detail when application team escalate this to my manager and my manager ask me why i was not able to find answers.

Note : --

My concern is not only finding tables by just knowing a value but some more thing specific to application related.

Lalit,

Quote:
An apllication DBA is supposed to do it. As you say you are a core DBA, so your organization does not have proper roles and responsibilities defined.


Can you tell me what to do this scenario ?

Thanks
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599238 is a reply to message #599230] Wed, 23 October 2013 03:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Watson
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Suhas, you need to be a bit careful here. Is your problem that you do not want to do this job, or that you are incapable of doing this job? To put it another way, you may appear to be showing either laziness, or incompetence. Perhaps you need to discuss this with your manager, and request either clearer guidelines on your duties, or more training.
It seems to me that this is more of a management issue than technical. Make your line management sort it out.
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599240 is a reply to message #599230] Wed, 23 October 2013 03:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lalit Kumar B
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suhasdba wrote on Wed, 23 October 2013 13:06
I was looking for this kind of answer ( lalit answer) but in a more specific manner.I am looking for answer in detail when application team escalate this to my manager and my manager ask me why i was not able to find answers.


Where is the technical issue here? Seems to be a management level issue.

Quote:

Note : --

My concern is not only finding tables by just knowing a value but some more thing specific to application related.


Some more thing? What thing?

Quote:

Lalit,

Quote:
An apllication DBA is supposed to do it. As you say you are a core DBA, so your organization does not have proper roles and responsibilities defined.


Can you tell me what to do this scenario ?



It depends on your Job description. The roles and responsibilities that you have been given by your management. In any organization, there are specific teams doing specific tasks. An employee is hired with a specific purpose.
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599241 is a reply to message #599240] Wed, 23 October 2013 03:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gazzag
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A DBA is also expected to be flexible. Often we are expected to deal with anything that ultimately connects to a database. Which is usually everything! John has provided sound advice: speak to your line-management to resolve the issue.
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599264 is a reply to message #599241] Wed, 23 October 2013 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ThomasG
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One thing to keep in mind generally: "There is a better way to achieve X" is a better argument than "Doing Y to achieve X is not my job" most of the time.

Unless your company is totally screwed up bureaucratic-wise. Wink

The *management* problem here is whether suhasdba is the one responsible for running a full-database search to figure out where a value is stored.

The *technical* problem is whether running a full-database search to figure out where a value is stored makes even sense or not.
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599276 is a reply to message #599264] Wed, 23 October 2013 08:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
suhasdba
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Thank you all for your suggestions.

Lalit , i have one more question for you.

Quote:
An apllication DBA is supposed to do it. As you say you are a core DBA, so your organisation does not have proper roles and responsibilities defined.

Why do you say an application DBA is suppose to do this task. Can you explain in detail ?

Thanks,
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599287 is a reply to message #599276] Wed, 23 October 2013 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pablolee
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How many DBAs work on the database in question?

[Updated on: Wed, 23 October 2013 08:35]

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Re: Concern with Application team [message #599305 is a reply to message #599276] Wed, 23 October 2013 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lalit Kumar B
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suhasdba wrote on Wed, 23 October 2013 18:37


Lalit , i have one more question for you.

Quote:
An apllication DBA is supposed to do it. As you say you are a core DBA, so your organisation does not have proper roles and responsibilities defined.

Why do you say an application DBA is suppose to do this task. Can you explain in detail ?


Well, I have already replied to it above. It is my personal opinion. Might not suit your job responsibility. I believe, App DBAs and core DBAs have their roles and resposibilities quite specifically defined. Yes, they go hand in hand to maintain the DB. However, to be specific about their roles, an App DBA is responsible for looking after the application tasks pertaining to a specific application, however, a core DBA works on multiple databases spread across multiple applications. An App DBA will have more functional knowledge about the application, a core DBA might not necessarily know a lot about the functionality.

I agree with gazzag, once in a while they do have to be flexible. But in the long run, expectations are quite firmly set. Pablolee has a valid question about number of DBAs. You might have to switch roles now and then depending on resource management.

It's not a topic to debate, it depends on the nature of your work and the organization.
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599308 is a reply to message #599276] Wed, 23 October 2013 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Watson
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suhasdba wrote on Wed, 23 October 2013 14:07
Thank you all for your suggestions.

Lalit , i have one more question for you.

Quote:
An apllication DBA is supposed to do it. As you say you are a core DBA, so your organisation does not have proper roles and responsibilities defined.

Why do you say an application DBA is suppose to do this task. Can you explain in detail ?

Thanks,
One more point: I would take this request as good opportunity. An interesting problem, developing a solution will be enjoyable and instructive work. Making yourself useful to other groups is never a bad thing. Persuade your boss to let you do it.
Re: Concern with Application team [message #599311 is a reply to message #599308] Wed, 23 October 2013 09:57 Go to previous message
Lalit Kumar B
Messages: 1094
Registered: May 2013
Location: Hi-tech city
Senior Member
John Watson wrote on Wed, 23 October 2013 20:18
One more point: I would take this request as good opportunity. An interesting problem, developing a solution will be enjoyable and instructive work. Making yourself useful to other groups is never a bad thing. Persuade your boss to let you do it.


John, you are really optimistic and helpful.

I am not saying we should leave any opportunity to learn new things, else it becomes monotonous. However, experience, skills set, bandwidth, work scope.....are also considerable things to decide.

IMHO, I would have said yes keeping all these things in mind, and would give an extra effort to complete the task. A good chance to prove to my boss too Razz
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