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80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499579] Tue, 15 March 2011 06:20 Go to next message
Littlefoot
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[EDITED by LF: this discussion regards this topic, this Michel's message]



Off topic: I don't quite get your last message, Michel. Code is properly formatted, I see it perfectly well in my Opera browser. Regarding the fact that Ahmet is our new member, his messages are more than beautiful (from my point of view).

Why do you complain? What about?

[Updated on: Tue, 15 March 2011 07:28]

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Re: Search in Nested Tables and Insert the result into new Nested Table! [message #499583 is a reply to message #499579] Tue, 15 March 2011 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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In my IE (any version), I have to horizontally scroll twice to get the end of line.
This is why I often say "do not exceed 80-character line width"; anyway, line larger than that are
harder to read, understand and analyze/debug because you have to move your eyes (or window) back and
forth, right to left to get it and in the meantime you lost the context of the other part.

Regards
Michel

[Updated on: Tue, 15 March 2011 06:36]

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Re: Search in Nested Tables and Insert the result into new Nested Table! [message #499585 is a reply to message #499583] Tue, 15 March 2011 06:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Does it mean that your screen resolution is (relatively) low? How large is your screen, anyway? Perhaps that's the point?
Re: Search in Nested Tables and Insert the result into new Nested Table! [message #499594 is a reply to message #499585] Tue, 15 March 2011 07:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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The point is more my eyes (my current screen is 1280x1024 and my laptop one 1900x1600
but this does not change the size of the character I can read). Sad

Regards
Michel
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499855 is a reply to message #499579] Wed, 16 March 2011 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joy_division
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Looks good to me in Firefox too. when I maximize the window, the text does go further out past 80 characters, but is still formatted well.
Is that what normally happens in a CODE box, when you maximize the browser, it will adjust?
I don't use IE so I don't know how it looks in that...thing.
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499873 is a reply to message #499855] Wed, 16 March 2011 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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In code (or pre) box there is no adjustment. The box is the same one whatever the window size is: lines are not split, just it adds scroll bar.

Regards
Michel
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499896 is a reply to message #499873] Wed, 16 March 2011 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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My screen resolution: 1280 x 768

This is how THE message looks like in my Opera browser - full screen screenshot; everything is perfectly OK. I suppose that your 1900 x 1600 is even better. Could you also post the same image? I'm curious how it looks like. (Maybe it is about IE, after all?)

./fa/8796/0/

[Updated on: Wed, 16 March 2011 10:51]

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Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499901 is a reply to message #499896] Wed, 16 March 2011 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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If your window is narrower (is this correct in english?), do you see horizontal scroll bar or are lines splitted?

Here's how it comes on my personnal laptop and on office one (where I posted from in the referenced topic, 1280x1024) it is worse:

./fa/8797/0/

Regards
Michel

  • Attachment: OraFAQ.JPG
    (Size: 253.45KB, Downloaded 513 times)

[Updated on: Wed, 16 March 2011 11:25]

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Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499912 is a reply to message #499901] Wed, 16 March 2011 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
c_stenersen
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From my IE ( 8 ) it looks fine, even though my screen resolution is 1280x1024. But then I noticed something. If I resize my window, it does indeed break the lines in the code. Both in IE and Firefox. So I am given the long line with "dbms_output.put_line(......" distributed over two lines.
In the stylesheet I find this:
pre {
    white-space: pre-wrap;
}


From http://www.quirksmode.org/css/whitespace.html I can see that pre-wrap is not supported on IE versions prior to 8.
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499932 is a reply to message #499912] Wed, 16 March 2011 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Michel, can you "zoom out" (i.e. make font smaller - see the difference between your and my font size).
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499936 is a reply to message #499932] Wed, 16 March 2011 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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Yes, but I can no more read it? Sad
It is quite hard for me to read your picture. Possible but I can't do it for all posts azs it requires effort (or to bring my head closer to the screen till 15cm).

Regards
Michel

[Updated on: Wed, 16 March 2011 14:51]

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Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499937 is a reply to message #499936] Wed, 16 March 2011 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Do you wear glasses? Should you?
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499938 is a reply to message #499937] Wed, 16 March 2011 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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Of course I do, since I was 12 but with the years glasses can no more fix my view.
I now combine the myopia of my younth with astigmatism and presbyopia.

Regards
Michel
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499973 is a reply to message #499938] Thu, 17 March 2011 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Me - since I was 3. Beat that!

Anyone wants to join the club? ./fa/3390/0/
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #499996 is a reply to message #499973] Thu, 17 March 2011 03:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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You are young, at the time I was 3 no one had the idea to check babies view.
The first I was checked I was 7 and I had a pretty good view; I became myope with the puberty.

Regards
Michel

Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500042 is a reply to message #499996] Thu, 17 March 2011 06:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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I had the good fortune to have good eyesight most of my life and didn't need glasses until I was about 45. However, since then, my eyesight has gone downhill faster than I have gotten new lenses.

I sometimes resort to using a magnifying glass or putting a pair of reading glasses on top of my trifocals to read the fine print on things. I have a necklace that has a decorative pendant with a magnifying glass in the middle of it that I sometimes wear when I go to the grocery store, so that I can easily use it to read the ingredients on packages without having to go in and out of my purse repeatedly to retrieve a magnifying glass. It is fairly convenient and doesn't look as stupid as wearing two pairs of glasses, which I only do at my desk at home. Just yesterday, while in the grocery store, I was attempting to open a plastic bag to put some fruit in it and having a difficult time, when I heard somebody say "She's trying to open the bag from the wrong end." and looked up to see two teenage girls standing there laughing.

I really appreciate the current feature of both Internet Explorer and Firefox that allows me to use ctrl+ to adjust the font size and use it regularly, but it does cause me to have to scroll back and forth horizontally to read long lines. It is much easier to read shorter lines without scrolling. This is why I usually indent only two spaces, so that multiple indentations do not increase the line width unnecessarily. I also try to limit columns displayed in output to only the relevant ones and limit the column width. However, if there are a lot of columns and wrapping them looks worse, then I do find it easier to scroll and view neat columns than to wrap the columns. The one drawback that I have noticed is that, if I increase the linesize for column display, or if anyone else in the thread does so, then it seems to affect the paragraphs of explanation outside of the code and cause them to match the same line length.

I do believe that we should all try to display things so that everybody can read them easily. At least with computers, we can adjust things somewhat. Hearing causes me a bigger problem. It isn't just that everything seems too low in volume. I get tinitus from time to time, an annoying ringing in my ears. It also gets hard to sort out what is being said when there is a lot of background noise. It amazes me, when I tell people that I don't hear well and move closer and ask them to speak louder, how many of them continue to speak too softly for me to pick up more than a few words. Then it is like trying to fill in a puzzle to figure out the missing words. At the last place that I worked, the man in the cubicle next to me was completely deaf. He had a special phone for the deaf and a string of lights wrapped around his cubicle that lit up when it "rang", so it would get his attention no matter which way he was looking. Our various fire and smoke alarms and such used to go off a lot, sometimes because it was a drill and sometimes because there was a real problem, sometimes it was accidentally set off, sometimes due to a malfunction, and usually you did not know which until it was over. So, I made a little sign with big letters that said "FIRE ALARM!" on it and kept it in my desk drawer. When the alarm went off, I would go to his cubicle, hold up the sign, then make sure he got out of the building with me. You take the stairs, not the elevator, so you don't get stuck on the elevator. On the way down one time, I saw a man in a wheelchair from another floor with two co-workers with him. They were trying to find out if it was a false alarm or not, before deciding whether to continue taking the wheel chair down the remaining flights of stairs.

For those of you that are young and healthy, someday you may be the one with the glasses having trouble reading the screen or the one asking somebody to speak louder or who needs a special phone or signs because you can't hear at all or the one in the wheelchair that needs help getting down several flights of stairs. Please try to understand in advance and accommodate the needs of those who are not as young and healthy as you are.

And now I will scroll to the right to find the buttons to preview and submit this.








Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500043 is a reply to message #500042] Thu, 17 March 2011 06:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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The message that I posted above is a perfect example of what I was talking about where, because one or more other posts have long lines, so does my post, and you have to scroll back and forth to read it. Is there an existing workaround for this that I am missing or can something be done about this?

Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500044 is a reply to message #499996] Thu, 17 March 2011 06:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Michel Cadot wrote on Thu, 17 March 2011 01:11

I became myope with the puberty.


Hmm... It is said that certain things cause you to go blind. Just kidding.



Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500048 is a reply to message #500044] Thu, 17 March 2011 07:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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./fa/449/0/
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500052 is a reply to message #500044] Thu, 17 March 2011 07:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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Laughing

Regards
Michel
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500053 is a reply to message #500043] Thu, 17 March 2011 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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Quote:
Is there an existing workaround for this

"Enter" key. Smile
What is missing is the bell when you come at the end of line of the good old typewriter.

Regards
Michel
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500058 is a reply to message #500044] Thu, 17 March 2011 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joy_division
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Barbara Boehmer wrote on Thu, 17 March 2011 07:31
Michel Cadot wrote on Thu, 17 March 2011 01:11

I became myope with the puberty.


Hmm... It is said that certain things cause you to go blind. Just kidding.


Just to comment on this...I didn't look at who posted it and just assumed it was Littlefoot
(sorry Littlefoot, no knock on you, just being around here so long I think I know
people's personailties well enough. I laugh at a lot of your comments). Then I saw
it was Barbara and thought, "Wow, you go girl!" 


p.s. I put it in code tags so you don't have to scroll.
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500116 is a reply to message #500058] Thu, 17 March 2011 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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LOL! No problem!
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #500216 is a reply to message #500043] Fri, 18 March 2011 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Roachcoach
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Barbara Boehmer wrote on Thu, 17 March 2011 11:29
Is there an existing workaround for this that I am missing or can something be done about this?



Span it across multiple monitors like I just did, no scroll bar Razz
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #544777 is a reply to message #500216] Thu, 23 February 2012 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Now is this the widest topic ever?
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #544778 is a reply to message #544777] Thu, 23 February 2012 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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Oh no, far from it.
This current one is wider and we already have seen even wider
from people having a "linesize 32767" with "trimout off".

Regards
Michel
Re: 80 characters per line, screens & eyes [message #544781 is a reply to message #544778] Thu, 23 February 2012 14:19 Go to previous message
Barbara Boehmer
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Yes, that one has been driving me nuts. Once there is one wide post, it causes normal posts below it to be the same width. I have to scroll way to the right just to find the reply icon. We tell people not to post reports as attachments, since not everyone can download them, so they put wide reports inline, and this is what happens.

I hope that by the time our vision gets so bad that we can no longer even read 80 characters per line, somebody will have perfected the technology that allows you to speak to your computer and have it type what you say. I have seen such things used, but they are very inaccurate, especially with words that have the same pronunciation, but different spelling. It can be fun to try to speak such things and see what comes out. For example, one of Ogden Nash's silly short poems:

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear.
Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.
Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't very fuzzy, was he?

or the old "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck ..." or "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers ..." or some such thing.




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