Home » Other » Suggestions & Feedback » Restructure/ add new forums
Restructure/ add new forums [message #482675] Mon, 15 November 2010 05:09 Go to next message
Frank Naude
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Registered: April 1998
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I would like to add some new forums (at the very least a MySQL forum).

Oracle has so many products that I'm not entirely sure the current structure still makes sense. Any ideas would be great!

Best regards.

Frank
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482679 is a reply to message #482675] Mon, 15 November 2010 05:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ramoradba
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Thats A Good IDEA
Sriram
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482687 is a reply to message #482675] Mon, 15 November 2010 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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Registered: March 2000
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I doubt if you could ever keep track of all of Oracle's products. (Re-)introduing a MySql forum will, in my not so humble opinion, cause a lot of noise: all of a sudden, we're no longer Oracle centered, which also means that the Server sub-forums and even the SQL forums will be cluttered with questions that only after some iterations will turn out to be MySql-or-whatever related.
I'd say stick to what OraFAQ is good at, but if you really want to go that way, it would require a very thorough think through of how to organize the forums..
Of course, always willing to help out, whichever you decide.
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482693 is a reply to message #482687] Mon, 15 November 2010 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank Naude
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Registered: April 1998
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We absolutely need to restructure to remain relevant. Usage of this site is declining with less messages posted year on year. If we do nothing we will sooner or later have to close it down.

2007 - 77565 messages
2008 - 75584 messages
2009 - 55160 messages
2010 - 43415 messages so far
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482694 is a reply to message #482675] Mon, 15 November 2010 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mahesh Rajendran
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While I totally agree with Frank that new features/forums will create more noise,
I think it is good. Good for OraFAQ and the community here.
Eventually we will attract folks with expertise in MySQL or other technologies involved and we can mature.


>>2010 - 43415 messages so far
Kind of expected.
Oracle database know-how is available in web in every other form.
Even Oracle database documentation is much improved now Smile.
Unless we expand the horizon, OraFAQ will get less traffic each year.
MySQL and Unix support forums for example will get lots of traffic.
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482722 is a reply to message #482694] Mon, 15 November 2010 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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I agree with several (and conflicting) opinions:
* It should be great to open the forum to MySQL and SQL Server
* It would be a mess if question about SQL Server or MySQL all go to SQL forum (due to misinterpretation of the forum name)
* Even answers to pure SQL questions would be very dependent on RDBMS => have different SQL forums ("Oracle SQL & PL/SQL", "MS SQL & T-SQL", "MySQL SQL", "RDBMS independent SQL"?)
* Several current forum are not used or very few, see below statistics, so maybe some can be merged and other removed
* Oracle documentation and concurrent forums are better each year (and Oracle forums or blogs become very numerous, especially Indian and now Chinese ones)

FORUM_NAME                                               2006       2007       2008       2009 01-09/2010
-------------------------------------------------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Application Express & MOD_PLSQL                           169        202        403        507        388
Application Server                                        428        456        386        331        158
Arabic                                                     10          1          5          4          8
Backup & Recovery                                        2151       3334       2856       1935       1200
Business Intelligence                                       4         21        206        122        186
Client Tools                                              178       1209       1297       1006       1049
Collaboration & Content Management                         15         21          1          1          0
Community Hangout                                         292        546        472        263        337
Data Guard                                                292        779        579        412        216
Designer                                                   89         62         62         55         29
Dutch                                                       3         32          0          0          0
Enterprise Manager                                        312       1094        824        621        409
Forms                                                    7137       7734       9659       7900       5071
French                                                     10         24         14          2         27
General                                                   592        910        890        606        706
German                                                      2          0          0          2          0
JDeveloper, Java & XML                                    420        398        745        460        356
Japanese                                                    4          5          4          0          0
Linux                                                     326        771        702        482        303
Marketplace                                               523        616        406        295        216
Moderator discussions                                       0         65        470        261        182
Networking and Gateways                                   678        967        930        728        558
Open Database Interfaces                                   45        151        192        123        133
Oracle Fusion Apps & E-Business Suite                    3283       3624       1486       1364        829
Other Application Suites                                   26         61         28         18         10
Other Operating Systems                                    39         40         35         30          3
PeopleSoft, JD Edwards & Siebel                            37         65         35          9         11
Performance Tuning                                       2265       3465       4439       2674       1897
Portuguese                                                  0          0          8         13          1
Precompilers, OCI & OCCI                                  247        398        454        236        164
RAC & Failsafe                                            272        437        566        623        384
Replication                                               145        230        353        217        128
Reports & Discoverer                                     1998       2600       2078       1844       1055
Russian                                                     1          7          4          0          0
SOA Suite, BPEL and OWSM                                    1         10         16         30          4
SQL & PL/SQL                                            24700      30841      30933      23679      17000
Security                                                  467        790        691        555        375
Server Administration                                    5174       7613       6192       3552       1880
Server Utilities                                         1707       2642       2711       1831       1508
Spanish                                                    25         15         25          4         47
Spatial                                                    31         14         32         19         26
Streams & AQ                                               56        200        284        173         67
Suggestions & Feedback                                    347        666        409        350        385
Test                                                      144        209        148        159        146
Text & interMedia                                         109        153        266        138        121
Training & Certification                                  871       2190       1451        398        314
Unix                                                      540       1070        802        575        244
Warehouse Builder                                         250        171        224        129         38
WebCenter Suite & Portal                                   53         37         40         12          7
Windows                                                   508        621        770        413        390

For instance, in forum group "Applications", only the first one "Oracle Fusion Apps & E-Business Suite" generates a significant number of topics, maybe we could merge all these forum in a single one.
Same thing for the group "Fusion Middleware & Colab Suite" (maybe changing its name).
Is it necessary to have "Unix" and "Linux" forums, why not just one "Unix" forum? I know that some questions are specific to Linux but, concerning Oracle, not much more than specific to AIX, HP-UX or Solaris.

Besides that, I think there is a problem with "JDeveloper, Java & XML" forum. Jdeveloper is a tool, Java is a language and XML is a way to store data. I don't know the first point. The second one generates Java language questions or rather JDBC ones to interface with Oracle. The third one mainly generates SQL or PL/SQL questions. Maybe we can split this forum, putting XML question to "SQL & PL/SQL" forum, Java question to Open Database Interfaces, and... is there Jdeveloper question? Just an idea.

Regards
Michel

[Updated on: Mon, 15 November 2010 11:30]

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Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482756 is a reply to message #482722] Mon, 15 November 2010 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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If I am not mistaken, Oracle now owns MySQL, although I can't recall exactly when they bought it. However, as far as I know, Oracle has nothing to do with SQL Server. Oracle's own website and forums now support MySQL, so as an Oracle forum, we should do the same. As we all know, the SQL used is drastically different, so they should be kept separate, so as not to be confused with one another. Perhaps we should relabel the current SQL and PL/SQL forum as Oracle only, not MySQL, with a new MySQL forum directly underneath it, so that it is easy to find and see the difference. Perhaps adding a mandatory Oracle or MySQL field when posting, similar to the current version field would help double-check that and make it easier to relocate posts to the right place quickly.

I have been a moderator or sysop or ace on three different Oracle forums, 2 of which still exist. It seems to me that what causes a forum to stop being used is when it is down too much, when it is too difficult to navigate and use due to slowness, when there aren't enough good responses in a timely manner, and when users are offended by responses they don't like.

I agree that java and xml should be separated. I don't know how they got lumped together to begin with. It would also help if we are diligent in moving things to the correct forums. Most of us only have time to browse our areas of special interest and if something is in the wrong forum we may never see it unless whoever browses the forum it was posted in moves it. I probably miss a lot of Text posts on the OTN forums because they got posted in SQL and PL/SQL or general and were never seen or answered. Those few posts that make it to the Text forum have frequently been redirected by somebody from one of those forums.





[Updated on: Mon, 15 November 2010 14:19]

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Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482770 is a reply to message #482756] Mon, 15 November 2010 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michel Cadot
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Quote:
although I can't recall exactly when they bought it.

With Sun, in April last year.

Quote:
Oracle has nothing to do with SQL Server.

I suggested this as it is a popular RDBMS. We can forget it.

Quote:
Perhaps we should relabel the current SQL and PL/SQL forum as Oracle only, not MySQL, with a new MySQL forum directly underneath it,

We can have only one MySQL forum for the moment and will can split it into SQL, Administration, Backup and so on later but it is a big job for moderators to spread the topics.
We can alos have a MySQL group with its (sub)forums.

Quote:
Perhaps adding a mandatory Oracle or MySQL field when posting, similar to the current version field would help double-check that and make it easier to relocate posts to the right place quickly.

This is a good idea.

Regards
Michel


Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482777 is a reply to message #482693] Mon, 15 November 2010 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Watson
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Hello, people - this topic has the look of something that might be meant for moderators only? But if you don't mind a comment:
With regard to falling numbers of messages, is it possible that this is due to new members being frightened away by their first answer? To be hit by demands to submit additional information that they don't understand, possibly in a not-very-friendly manner, must be discouraging. Similarly, receiving a reply consisting of only an instruction to read the documentation. Of course, all learners should be encouraged to ask questions in a manner that permits a sensible reply, and to read docs - but could it be done more tactfully? Sometimes topics do read as though the questioner must justify his right to exist before getting an answer.

And as an off topic comment, perhaps this is an opportunity to say that I joined this forum nearly a year ago (when I heard that it was associated with someone I know and respect from a previous job in a previous country - hello, Frank!) and that I have been very impressed by the knowledge, humour, and attitude to teaching displayed by some of the contributors. I have learnt a lot from you. Thanks.
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482779 is a reply to message #482693] Mon, 15 November 2010 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Location: California, USA
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Frank Naude wrote on Mon, 15 November 2010 06:05

We absolutely need to restructure to remain relevant. Usage of this site is declining with less messages posted year on year. If we do nothing we will sooner or later have to close it down.

2007 - 77565 messages
2008 - 75584 messages
2009 - 55160 messages
2010 - 43415 messages so far


I would like to think that some of that is due to more quality and less quantity of garbage weeded out.

If you are looking for a way to increase interest and get some more advertising, how about t-shirts? A lot of sites have t-shirts and other stuff for sale with their logo on it. For example, Firefox has a nice logo. The OraFAQ logo with the world map is pretty nice. Have you ever wondered when you're standing in line at a store or sitting in a waiting room, whether there might be other OraFAQ forum members or Oracle users around you? If someone sees you wearing an OraFAQ shirt or you see someone else wearing one, it would certainly give you something to talk about, starting with trying to guess who the other is.

Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482817 is a reply to message #482777] Tue, 16 November 2010 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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Registered: March 2000
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John Watson wrote on Mon, 15 November 2010 21:09
Hello, people - this topic has the look of something that might be meant for moderators only? But if you don't mind a comment:
With regard to falling numbers of messages, is it possible that this is due to new members being frightened away by their first answer? To be hit by demands to submit additional information that they don't understand, possibly in a not-very-friendly manner, must be discouraging. Similarly, receiving a reply consisting of only an instruction to read the documentation. Of course, all learners should be encouraged to ask questions in a manner that permits a sensible reply, and to read docs - but could it be done more tactfully? Sometimes topics do read as though the questioner must justify his right to exist before getting an answer.

Thanks for your input. I don't think Frank Naude meant this to be a moderator-only discussion (there is a moderator-only subforum for that), so everyone's input is welcomed.
I think you hit a good point there, this has been an ongoing discussion for the last several years now.
It is also how OraFAQ is often described in the OTN forums.
As an example of how to guide people to providing correct information, how to tell them that we don't do their homework, etc, I really like the javaranch forums. They tend to answer the questions asked (unless it's a blunt request for code), but spice their replies with links to pages where they explain a specific guideline. So, instead of having one big page containing all guidelines, which results in everyone being routed to the same page over and over, without a clear guidance on what bit they "violated", they get a friendly tip on how to improve their question (e.g. do your own homework)
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482824 is a reply to message #482817] Tue, 16 November 2010 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Frank, do you think that splitting that "huge" Forum Guide into several smaller pieces would be a good idea? Obviously, every section could have its own "topic" (closed for discussion, a single-message one). People who love pointing to the Guide and not explaining which rule they think has been violated would then point to an exact document so - it would be more obvious.

As it was me who collected all the "old" guidelines and put them together (sometimes I think that it was really a bad idea), I could do the opposite. Or, if it turns out that no guidelines at all would be better, no problem; nobody seems to be reading it anyway.
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482825 is a reply to message #482777] Tue, 16 November 2010 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Watson
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I have to flame myself for my previous comment regarding frightened newcomers:

This is a FAQ
Is Google broken for you?
Did you SEARCH before posting?

I need an emoticon for "want to crawl into a hole and bury myself"

Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482837 is a reply to message #482825] Tue, 16 November 2010 01:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ramoradba
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You can use ./fa/7389/0/ instead Wink

The same topic/points (By you) discussed here so many times in different ways i.e.lmgtfy links.It is still on going ofcourse its an offtopic here

Sriram
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482847 is a reply to message #482824] Tue, 16 November 2010 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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@LF: I really don't know what the best way would be to handle that; it should all start with a change in attitude of the ones that point to the guide as a habit.
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #482851 is a reply to message #482847] Tue, 16 November 2010 05:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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That's close to fight windmills.
Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #483052 is a reply to message #482851] Wed, 17 November 2010 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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I see that we now have a MySQL forum and some posts have been moved to it. I had only used MySQL briefly in the past and did not have it on this computer. So I downloaded the MySQL Server and MySQL Workbench. It was a little awkward at first, but I was able to create a table, enter some data, and run some queries, so I think I am set to test anything that is posted now.

How many of you are experienced MySQL users?

Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #483053 is a reply to message #483052] Wed, 17 November 2010 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mahesh Rajendran
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I would not call myself an experienced MySQL user . But I am spending more time on MySQL these days.
Maintain several databases ( less than 100), few around 2-4 TB,
some less than 100GB, most smaller ones (< 10gb).
100% of users are from scientific/academic community. Nobody cares
about performance as long as it is reasonable and data is safe.
Life is good in my MySQL world Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 17 November 2010 20:24]

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Re: Restructure/ add new forums [message #483066 is a reply to message #483053] Thu, 18 November 2010 01:16 Go to previous message
ramoradba
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I am using MySql(Its Just developer stuff not as a DBA one Wink) from the last 3 years


Sriram
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