Home » Other » Community Hangout » apples and oranges and so on and what happened to barbara (merged 2 threads)
apples and oranges and so on and what happened to barbara (merged 2 threads) [message #314116] Tue, 15 April 2008 16:04 Go to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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flyboy wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 01:25

Just a foreignism: this approach is verbatim described as comparing apples with pears in my country (oranges do not grow here :) )


I started to post this as a response in the forum that it was posted in, but then I went so far off on various tangents that I decided that it belonged here instead.

Tom Kyte usally says that something is like comparing apples to toaster ovens. I don't know why he usually uses toaster ovens, but he usually does, perhaps to emphasize that things are so different that they are not even in the same category, like apples and oranges and pears are at least all fruit.

I have a semi-dwarf mandarine orange tree in my front yard that produces about 100 oranges per year. However, the last 2 years in a row, strong winds have blown every one of them out of the tree while they were still little green things. This year I planted a new semi-dwarf mandraine orange tree in the back yard, in a spot that is sheltered from the wind, but still gets a lot of sun. I don't know how long it will take it to get big enough to produce oranges, but I am hoping that eventually I will have enough to try making my own orange marmalade in addition to just eating them as they are.

I also planted some red-tip photinia fraseri bushes, some red camelias, some coleus, and some flower seeds (cosmos, poppy, and baby's breath). I have just discovered a place in Australia that ships thornless roses. I have always avoided roses because of the thorns. These thornless roses were apparently developed in California, but Australia seems to be the only place selling them that I know of. I am thinking of trying some.

While I was pulling up weeds out of the front lawn this morning (a never-ending task) two of my neighbors' four dogs got into my yard and charged at me growling with their teeth showing. I yelled at them and waved what I had in my hands and grabbed the hose, so I could spray them, but they ran home before I could spray them. The other two larger dogs that killed their baby horse were still in the pen. I am worried that someday either one of the dogs is going to bite me or I am going to end up having to hit one of the with a shovel or rake or garden hoe or something in order to keep from being bitten. It is difficult to simultaneously defend yourself against two dogs. If I hit one, the other may bite me. I have spoken to the owners repeatedly.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 April 2008 16:06]

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Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314132 is a reply to message #314116] Tue, 15 April 2008 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djmartin
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Is there a lion park in USA? Do they sell the manure of these cats? If so, buy some and regularly place it around your boundary. It works.

Unfortunately, the lion park near where I used to live no longer sells it.

David
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314178 is a reply to message #314132] Tue, 15 April 2008 23:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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David
the lion park no longer sells it.
I wonder, what do they do with it now?

As of Barbara's problems with neighbours and their bad mannered animals, well, although I believe in peaceful solutions and negotiations, recent experience from where I live (a war, that is) suggests that you have to buy a larger hammer than neighbour's. And, of course, use it.
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314184 is a reply to message #314116] Wed, 16 April 2008 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlackSwan
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How big a Hammer is enough (please quantify by centimeters).
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314196 is a reply to message #314184] Wed, 16 April 2008 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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You no understand Smile

It isn't a "hammer", it is "hammer" (which may be a gun if neighbour has a pistol, tiger if he owns a dog, truck if he drives a car etc.)
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314221 is a reply to message #314196] Wed, 16 April 2008 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
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Isn't that what start wars instead of solves them...
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314255 is a reply to message #314221] Wed, 16 April 2008 03:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Yes, indeed.

Unfortunately, some people are incapable of understanding what's been told unless you use something big enough and hard enough against their head.

I'm not saying that Barbara should shoot these dogs (or, even better (worse?)) their owners, but *something* should be done. Will it be police officer (with a warning "take care about your dogs, and do it now!"), condemnation (supported with a reasonably high penalty (everyone knows that money loss hurts a lot)) or ... I don't know what, but worrying about your own health (meaning, worrying a lot every day) because of someone's negligence is far from an ideal life.
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314257 is a reply to message #314255] Wed, 16 April 2008 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rleishman
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Does lion poo really work? Didn't the Mythbusters debunk the lion pee myth a while ago? Would poo be any different?

You can get anti-dog crystals that smell kind of horse-radishy (of course, you could also try horse-radish or smelling salts).

Used it to keep my dog from escaping under the fence when he was a puppy. Freaked him out the first time he sniffed it.

He's determined and adaptable though; sprinked it on food left on the edge of the table to deter him from stealing when we left the room. Food is a powerful reward for a beagle though, and he just soldiered on and stole it anyway. Repeated the experiment with about 3 teaspoons of cayenne pepper - I swear this thing looked like a bright red schnitzel it was that covered in chilli - same result. This is one food-motivated dog.

Without any real doggy reward for property incursions, something unpleasantly smelly (for a dog) should keep them away. A supersonic perimiter alarm might also work.
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314295 is a reply to message #314132] Wed, 16 April 2008 05:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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djmartin wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 16:12
Is there a lion park in USA? Do they sell the manure of these cats? If so, buy some and regularly place it around your boundary. It works.

Unfortunately, the lion park near where I used to live no longer sells it.

David


There used to be a place that had large cats nearby, but they were forced to move. I don't know of any others nearby. However, I think there might be problems with complaints from other neighbors regarding the smell and I believe there are some ordinances against such things. I should not have to do anything to keep my neighbors' dogs off of my property. It should be their responsibility to do so. I would like to keep things peaceful. I also know that the children next door are very attached to their dogs and would be very upset if I have to kill one or more with a shovel. At this point, I am just planning on watching my back while I am gardening, going for the hose, using a shovel as a last resort, and continuing to talk to and/or yell at the neighbors. I have found in the past that if I start yelling at the neighbors as loud as I can to get their dogs out of my yard while it is happening, it gets their attention and that of the rest of the neighborhood, and everyone can see for themselves that it is happening and I am not making it up. I am still open to other suggestions.

It is about 3:30 a.m. here. I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep, so I figured I might as well get up and do some things instead of wasting time. I live near some train tracks. When I was at the laundromat yesterday I could see the nearest railroad crossing. I kept hearing the trains blowing their whistles over and over and over, almost non-stop. I looked and saw that the problem is that the railroad crossing arms are broken and not coming down and the lights aren't flashing and the bell isn't rining. So the trains are moving very slowly and blowing the whistle the whole time. They must not have fixed it yet, because they are still doing that tonight. I sure hope they fix it later today.


Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314328 is a reply to message #314295] Wed, 16 April 2008 06:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Huh, something like this?

./fa/4150/0/

A few years back I worked on a project in Bosnia. That day the weather was awful; we didn't know the area and, lucky us, there was a local driver who apparently knew that railroad crossing arms were out of order so he checked whether the train was approaching or not.
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Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314338 is a reply to message #314328] Wed, 16 April 2008 06:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Yes, like that. There have been many fatal train versus vehicle collisions at this particular crossing. Here is an article about it:

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_H_crossings22.2eeb89e.html
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314345 is a reply to message #314338] Wed, 16 April 2008 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Here, where I live, is a (relatively) large cross-railroad (to Hungary, Slovenia, eastern Croatia and Zagreb (our capital)). However, there are only two crossings where road and railroad are in the same ground level; all the others have been closed and underpasses or overbridges have been built instead.

I see that money is the main problem - your area is probably much more populated than ours (a map in the article suggests that there are at least 6 crossings there!), but such a solution (as we have here) is really the best - noone has to wait for the train and there's no danger of an accident.
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314821 is a reply to message #314345] Thu, 17 April 2008 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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One of the trains derailed this morning:

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_webderail17.1c181d4.html

I hope the trains aren't going to be blowing their whistles all night long again.
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #314826 is a reply to message #314821] Thu, 17 April 2008 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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There were no injured people; that's great.

On the other side of the world (here), a kid lost his leg yesterday after falling under the running train. It was moving slowly (preparing to stop at the station), but - as it appears - school children (teenagers) are often jumping onto it, grabbing the door handle in order to be first who enter the wagon and take a sit. One of them was too clumsy and had an accident.

Railway officers say that they know about the problem, but are unable to stop children doing that.
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #315105 is a reply to message #314116] Sat, 19 April 2008 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
athar.fitfd@hotmail.com
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where are the Oracle forms ?
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #315121 is a reply to message #315105] Sat, 19 April 2008 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Here they are; slightly southeast from Explorer.
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #315291 is a reply to message #314295] Sun, 20 April 2008 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djmartin
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Quote:
I wonder, what do they do with it now?
The park closed and the animals were moved to bigger 'open area' zoos.

Quote:
However, I think there might be problems with complaints from other neighbors
You don't have to use much. Most people can't smell it at the levels that we used to use. A 5lb bag would last for a few months. You just use a few small lumps every other weekend among the front roses.

Old Lion Parks in Australia http://www.zoobeat.com/24/lion-park-near-two-wells-12674/

I have the feeling that as the animals are now in enclosures that are acres/hectares in size the staff do not have to worry about picking up the animal droppings as much as when they were in smaller spaces.

David
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #315294 is a reply to message #315291] Sun, 20 April 2008 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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I imagine that the lions are a lot happier with more room to roam around. I have not found any nearby places where I might acquire lion poo. The nearest zoos that I know of are in Los Angeles and San Diego. There used to be lions nearby in Mira Loma, but I don't know where they went. How did you store a five-pound bag of poo? Did you just keep the bag in the garage or store it in an air-tight container or what?


Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #315301 is a reply to message #314116] Mon, 21 April 2008 00:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dr.s.raghunathan
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very odd suggestion...


do you know yoga

at distance... try to see the dog's eyes and chant get away
from my garden for three minutes... without moving your lips..

while doing so...
take deep breath for 6 times (in breath 30 seconds and out
breath 20 seconds)...

if you are successful... tell me i offer more solutions
on private problems...
yours
dr.s.raghunathan
Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #315536 is a reply to message #315294] Mon, 21 April 2008 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djmartin
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[Note: I do the major digging, landscaping, and arty bits, not the routine plant things.] My wife stores the smelly things ("moo poo", chicken droppings, "sheep pellets") in plastic garbage bins (10-12gal/100-120ltr?) which have wire clips in the handles to lock the lid down and places these out in the garden, typically, under the trees or beside the shed.

David
what happend to barbara [message #317634 is a reply to message #314116] Fri, 02 May 2008 04:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dr.s.raghunathan
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hi,

for quite some time i do not see your replies.. what happened..

did the dog bite or you are on long vacation...

yours
dr.s.raghunathan
Re: what happend to barbara [message #317680 is a reply to message #317634] Fri, 02 May 2008 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joy_division
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Huh? If you are talking about Barbara Boehmer, she has a message here every day, with the exception of yesterday.
Re: what happend to barbara [message #317722 is a reply to message #317680] Fri, 02 May 2008 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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I have not had time to read or respond as much as usual. My annual jury duty service started on Monday. We had to report in on Thursday morning. I have to leave home very early, because you have to park a long ways away, then wait for the shuttle to the court or take a long walk, then wait in line to get through the metal detector, then by that time you have to wait in line to use the restroom, then go check in. We sat around for hours Thursday, then were told to come back Monday morning. We have apparently been assigned to a jury panel for a specific case and it is likely we will be jurors. We were told the case is estimated to last about 39 days. I don't know if that is 39 court days or 39 calendar days. So, if you don't hear from me for a while, I either don't have time or may have been prohibited from using the internet or reading newspapers or any such thing during that time. We were all trying to guess at what sort of case it might be that is expected to take so long and were guessing that it might be a murder case. In the meanwhile, I am trying to cram all of the yardwork, housework, and errands that I normally do throughout the week into today and the weekend in preparation. I retired because it was too difficult for me to continue working full time and this is like going back to work full time. It is going to be extremely difficult for me. They only have specific excuses that they accept, such as loss of income from self-employment, and my problems don't fit those categories, so I have not tried to get an excuse, and am hoping to muddle through.

Two of the dogs continue to get into my yard. One recent evening, it happened while two of the neighbors were standing by our adjoining fence. I yelled at them that their dog was in my yard again, but they ignored me. However, the dog ran out of my yard. That was in the front yard. This morning, while I was in my backyard, the same dog ran along the side of my house from my front yard to my backyard. Upon seeing me, it immediately ran home, stood on it's side of the fence, and barked at me. This dog is the youngest dog and is not too much of a problem by itself. It seems to understand now where the boundary is and that it is not supposed to be in my yard. It is only when its mother is with it that they get on opposite sides of me and growl and charge at me, instead of running out of my yard.

The other day, some of the same neighbor's chickens got loose and their teenage boy chased them around for a long time, got frustrated, and started throwing rocks at them to knock them over, so that he could catch them before they got back up. This strikes me as cruel. There is one hen that has gotten loose repeatedly and I have helped them catch her in my yard twice, but she is back again. After seeing him throw rocks at the others, I have decided to let this one live out the rest of her life in my yard and watch for where she lays her eggs and make sure I don't allow her to hatch any. We have had previous problems with the neighborhood being overrun by such stray chickens. Animal control's attitude has been that they don't contact the owner of the stray chickens. Instead they consider it the problem of the person whose property they see them on. In the past they told me that if I did not find a way to get rid of other people's stray chickens on my property that they would issue me a citation. I ended up finding someone who rounded them all up and took them away to sell them. I am trying to avoid having this happen again. Since I don't have any kids, dogs, or outdoor cats, my property is very appealing to other people's stray animals.

One day recently I caught a former neighbor who moved out about five years ago abandoning cats in my front yard. She got out of her vehicle with her carriers, opened them up, and started shoving cats through my gate. I saw her drive up, went outside to see what she was doing, caught her in the act, and we had quite a confrontation. I insisted that she round up the cats and take them with her, but she couldn't catch them. She ended up finding another neighbor who agreed to watch for them and take them. She mentioned something about her daughter working for animal control. I am guessing that, rather than euthanize cats, her daughter gives them to her, and she abandons them in various places. What she apparently doesn't realize is that most of the stray cats get killed by the stray dogs and they cause problems for the neighborhood she dumps them in.

As usual, I continue to have more things to deal with faster than I can deal with them.

In the past, when I tried calling animal control about dog problems, the responses I got were that they do not take anonymous calls and that they do not respond until after a human has been bitten. When I did get them to respond, by the time they got here, the pit bull I was calling about at the time was back in its own yard, and they threatened me with arrest for making a false report, since I could not prove that it was loose. That was years ago, but these things are why I do not call animal control. They don't help. They just cause new problems. This is also one of the reasons that I need to have a good security system that records everything, so that the next time that something big happens, I will have proof. I have read so many cases in the newspaper, where one neighbor ends up killing another neighbor's vicious dog and they always seem to arrest the neighbor who killed the dog. It seems like so many things are backwards. Most people site ongoing problems as leading up to such things, and then people ask why they didn't just call animal control.

It was this sort of lack of appropriate response and action that led to what happened years ago. Two abandoned houses were occupied by about 30 gang members each and they did various thefts, vandalisms, and were noisy and messy. Riverside County Sheriff's Department said they knew they were gang members and drug dealers from having dealt with them where they lived before, but were too understaffed to do anything about them at the time. They would get in fights and drug rip-offs and there would be driveby shootings. My vehicle windshield and kitchen window were shot out in the crossfire. Until one night the guy across the street had a confrontation with one of them and shot and killed one, after which he was arrested, but subsequently released. The deceased apparently had a 2-year-old child. It turns out that the whole ring was run by a couple in their thirties and most of the rest of them were teenage runaways with a few young children. The agency that finally brought the whole mess to an end was child protective services, which got involved because the 2-year old's father was dead. That bunch is long gone now, but this is just an example of how you can't get help when problems are growing until something major happens, then it is difficult to prove who the bad guys are and who the good guys are.

You also can't count on neighbors. I have had neighbors witness things, like who broke into my house, and tell me about it, but tell me that if I tell the police that they told me that they will deny it, because they don't want to have to go to court and testify and waste their time and be in fear of retaliation. So, if I do call and say he saw it, and they ask him and he says no, then that makes me look like a liar and just sets me up for accusations of making a false complaint.

So, the end result is that you end up being a victim, not reporting anything, until something happens that is too big to ignore and/or that you can prove.







Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #317725 is a reply to message #315301] Fri, 02 May 2008 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
Messages: 7861
Registered: November 2002
Location: California, USA
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dr.s.raghunathan wrote on Sun, 20 April 2008 22:51
very odd suggestion...


do you know yoga

at distance... try to see the dog's eyes and chant get away
from my garden for three minutes... without moving your lips..

while doing so...
take deep breath for 6 times (in breath 30 seconds and out
breath 20 seconds)...

if you are successful... tell me i offer more solutions
on private problems...
yours
dr.s.raghunathan



Yoga? Only slightly. I have used a little bit from some exercise videos and such for flexibility. I am not into holding poses in pretzel-like positions for lengthy periods of time or meditating. I prefer the kinds of yoga that move gracefully from one pose to another, kind of like ballet; I think they call them asanas. I had a DVD of daily stretches put out by a company called Gaiam. I liked it, so when I saw they had a yoga DVD, I got that. It is Iyengar Hatha Yoga taught by Patricia Waldon with detailed instructions on how to do things properly. I find it a little slow and boring and lost patience and haven't used it lately.

I am not into chanting and such. I am more inclined to yell, wave whatever is in my hands, and stomp my feet. I have heard that some dogs have reactions to eye to eye contact and have seen a martial arts instructor stare down a German Shepherd. I have been told that with some dogs it is best to avoid eye contact as they consider it a challenge to fight. Reactions to males versus reactions to females may be different as well. A human male may seem to a dog like an alpha male dog, but I probably seem more like a mother cat, since I am female and probably smell like my cats. Many years ago, when my sister was a young child, she was bitten in the face by a dog that belonged to people she was visiting. Apparently the dog was usually friendly to people, but liked to chase cats, and it probably smelled my mother's cat on her.

It is interesting to note that different cultures respond to eye contact in different manners as well. I have been told that in some culture if a woman looks a man in the eyes it is considered an invitation to sex. In others, direct eye contact is considered a challenge to fight. In others, failure to establish eye contact is considered disrespectful. In a multicultural environment, sometimes it is hard to figure out what seemingly simple little behavioral issues are appropriate and you are bound to offend somebody no matter which you choose.




Re: what happend to barbara [message #317730 is a reply to message #317722] Fri, 02 May 2008 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Although stories about your life are extremely interesting, they sometimes sound as Ripley's "Believe it or not!". Unbelievable! Gee, what a neighbourhood!

I guess that moving into some quiet, nice block isn't the option, is it?
Re: what happend to barbara [message #317736 is a reply to message #317730] Fri, 02 May 2008 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Littlefoot wrote on Fri, 02 May 2008 14:33
Although stories about your life are extremely interesting, they sometimes sound as Ripley's "Believe it or not!". Unbelievable! Gee, what a neighbourhood!

I guess that moving into some quiet, nice block isn't the option, is it?


When I first moved here it was a nice quiet neighborhood. The nearby houses were owned by married couples with a few kids and a few pets. What happened is the economy went downhill and when couples got divorced neither could afford to buy the other one out and they owed more than what the houses were worth so they walked away from them, abandoning them, letting them go into foreclosure, and moved into small apartments that did not allow pets, so they left their pets behind to fend for themselves. The abandoned houses were then occupied by gang members and dope dealers. The loan companies had trouble evicting the squatters, who would cut locks off and they would have to repeatedly serve notices on different people. These squatters did not pay mortgages or rent or utilities. They stole these things and other things when they could and lived without them and did lots of vandalism and no property maintenance. This caused the property values in the whole neighborhood to go down. In some cases, some of the squatters filed claims that allowed them to take legal possession due to the prior owners not having payed property taxes on time.

I am one of the few who stuck it out. At its worst, property values went down such that the house was worth about 3/4 of the original price. Ultimately property values went up to about 3 times the original price. Now things have taken a downturn again. Gang members live on one side and what appear are probably illegal aliens on the other side. The couple across the street are getting divorced and trying to sell. The couple behind are retired and older than I am and having health problems, but still doing good enough so far. The neighborhood is a mixture of older retirees, gang members, illegal aliens, and various others. I got tired of painting over the graffiti on my trash bin and just wait for the trash company to replace it periodically.

There is no guarantee that if I were to move to another place that I could afford that it would be any better or that the same thing would not happen. It would also be a horrendous task to do so. I am not sure if I will ever be up to the task of searching for a new home, selling this one, packing everything up, and moving. I would like to move, but I don't know if I will ever be able to do that. There are other problems as well that I won't go into in detail right now. There are so many scams going on, that if you try to sell, buy, or refinance, you are likely to end up a homeless victim. I also don't know where I would move to. There are some things that I would like to get away from here and many things that I put a lot of money, time, and effort into fixing up the way that I want. It would be hard to find another place with a 540 square foot kitty enclosure outside the back door and various other things or to build them all over again.

If you drive by during the mid-morning hours when people are either at work, at school, or still sleeping due to partying the night before, it is a peaceful neighborhood, but at other times it can be bad. Things are actually not as bad now as they were before the shooting that caused the major cleanup years ago, but I fear things are headed in that direction again.

One of the things that I have learned is that it is better to live in a city than an unincorporated county area. Cities contract for a certain level of public services, whereas when resources get cut short, they short-change the county areas in order to continue to provide contracted services to the cities.

Here is one of many local newspaper articles that talks about the syndrome of foreclosures, abandonments, vandalism, graffiti, and how one such home leads to more:

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_R_svacant13.3ec6430.html








Re: what happend to barbara [message #317756 is a reply to message #317736] Sat, 03 May 2008 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dr.s.raghunathan
Messages: 539
Registered: February 2008
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hi

this is the first time i understand the different scenario exists in the outer world. I have never come across the problems faced by barbara any where in india. May be india is a poor coundtry and has many other problems and do not have neighbourhood problems.

I invite you to settle in india... While reading the writings as
frank said i am unable to believe manythings and doubted whether this has been written in the interest of talking or as a fiction. I myself eradicated the thinkings after seeing all other community hangout messages of past and how much she is serious about the factful and serious problems.

In india, whether you believe it not, prayer is the sound and powerful tool for many problems. I can quote lots of example where prayers had done too many good things. I am not asking you to do anything. I will pray for you, and you will come out of the problems in very short spell of time...

yours
dr.s.raghunathan

Re: apples and oranges and so on [message #317758 is a reply to message #317725] Sat, 03 May 2008 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dr.s.raghunathan
Messages: 539
Registered: February 2008
Senior Member
Quote:
In a multicultural environment, sometimes it is hard to figure out what seemingly simple little behavioral issues are appropriate and you are bound to offend somebody no matter which you choose.



i think, i am slowly converting myself as fan of your writings.

i do not want and let me get myself escaped for your mesmerism...
(just a joke...)

yours
dr.s.raghunathan

Re: what happend to barbara [message #317777 is a reply to message #317756] Sat, 03 May 2008 06:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank
Messages: 7877
Registered: March 2000
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Please leave religion out of these forums.
I don't want to offend you, so please don't offend me.
Re: what happend to barbara [message #317842 is a reply to message #317777] Sun, 04 May 2008 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dr.s.raghunathan
Messages: 539
Registered: February 2008
Senior Member
i am not here to preech any religion or to probagate any
religion since i also against to that thinkings...

Actually by mistake, i referred your name (Frank) in that reply instead of someone else.. Some of my brain cells repeatedly getting occupied by frank writings too. That is the reason,
mistake has been happened...

I am the last person to offend anybody in the world.. Anyway
i extremely sorry if any of words caused or offended you,,

I will try to be cautious much more...

yours
dr.s.raghunathan
Re: what happend to barbara [message #318139 is a reply to message #317736] Mon, 05 May 2008 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djmartin
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Location: Canberra ACT Australia
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I had thought of suggesting that you get a 'supersoaker' water-pistol and fill it with diluted vinegar (and maybe beetroot water) and strap it on your thigh for those times you need to 'mark your territory' or a 'critter' gets into your yard. Maybe you need to make the cat run bigger so that it occupies your whole yard.

Even in Oz (Australia) we have had news coverage of abandoned houses in the 'Rust Belt' of the USA that have been stripped of their copper pipes and fixtures. We have had a few problems with houses being repossessed in our bigger cities but not to the same volume that appears to exist in the USA.

Touch wood, I have never been called up for jury duty and as a contractor I wouldn't like to have to sit on a 39 day trial.

David

Mega oops: failed to specify location of 'abandoned houses'.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 May 2008 18:44]

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Re: what happend to barbara [message #318155 is a reply to message #318139] Mon, 05 May 2008 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
Messages: 7861
Registered: November 2002
Location: California, USA
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I think the vinegar might be considered some sort of criminal chemical assault. It would be nice to enclose the whole backyard, but I would need to do it a little bit at a time and find an easier way to do it than heavy expensive chain-link panels and wire mesh top. I think I would need to find some lighter-weight less expensive panels that I can use for sides and top. It would be nice to let the cats have a larger area as well, but still keep the smaller enclosure within the larger one, so that I could confine them to a smaller area temporarily if need be. There also may be some restrictions on what is allowed. I believe such things are only allowed in the backyard and there may be a size limit. There was a house on the cross-street that had a front porch cat enclosure that was removed and I heard that it had to be removed because it violated some sort of building code. Right now I have a lot of other higher priority things before I could even consider something like this.


Re: what happend to barbara [message #318172 is a reply to message #318155] Tue, 06 May 2008 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Registered: June 2005
Location: Croatia, Europe
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So, vinegar is against the law; there are restrictions on where and how to make the cat enclosure.

At the same time, it is allowed to keep (keep?) dogs out of control and nobody cares (but people who are being endangered).

Funny world.
Re: what happend to barbara [message #318428 is a reply to message #318172] Tue, 06 May 2008 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
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Registered: November 2002
Location: California, USA
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Jury duty is over, much earlier than anticipated.

Re: what happend to barbara [message #318476 is a reply to message #318428] Wed, 07 May 2008 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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Already? That was quick! What was the case about (if you are allowed to share the information)? What was the verdict?
Re: what happend to barbara [message #318652 is a reply to message #318476] Wed, 07 May 2008 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
Messages: 7861
Registered: November 2002
Location: California, USA
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My service started April 28th. Instructions were to check the prior weekend to find out if and when and where to report. When I checked it said it was re-scheduled to later in the week and to check again on the evening of April 29th. When I checked on the 29th it said the same thing and to check on the evening of April 30th. When I checked April 30th, it said to report in the morning of May 1st. On May 1st, they went through lengthy roll-calls and orientations, and had some of us fill out some questionnaires, and sent people to various courtrooms. Just before noon, I was assigned to a jury panel for a particular trial and told to return to the jury room Monday morning, May 5th. After reporting to the jury room on May 5th, we were finally sent to the courtroom for more roll-call, orientation, the judge listening to hardship excuses from people trying to get out of jury duty, and so on.

Eventually, they began the process of selecting a jury from the panel. The prosecuting attorney and the defense attorney get to ask the prospective jurors questions, in order to determine if they believe they might tend to favor the prosecution or the defense in this particular case or be completely fair and impartial. In order to do this, they do things like read off a list of potential witnesses and ask if you know anybody on the list and ask about life experiences that might cause you to lean one way or the other. If the judge believes that there is cause to dismiss a juror, then they can be dismissed. Each attorney also has a certain number of peremptory challenges that they can use to dismiss any juror that they would prefer not to have on the jury without cause. Every time one is dismissed, another random name is called to take their place, and they briefly review the previous questions with the new juror, then continue with new questions. We got partway through this process on Monday May 5th. We were given a lengthy lunch break, so that they could repeat the first part that we had already been through with a new batch and merge us together. There is a library a few blocks up the street that has internet terminals, so I went there after eating.

Monday afternoon May 5th, we were told to return on Tuesday morning, May 6th for more of the same. I eventually made it onto the jury, only to be dismissed by one of the attorneys using a peremptory challenge Tuesday. So, I am done until next year. It is a very slow process where they start with hundreds of people in order to ultimately select 12 jurors and 2 alternates.

In the past I have found that going through such a process allows me to hear just enough about the case to peak my interest, but that is typically the last that I hear. If such things are big enough to make it into the newspapers, they typically do so when they happen, not when they go to trial, or after a verdict is reached, or sentencing, so that is probably the last I will ever hear about it. We were told that we cannot discuss the case until 90 days after it is over, just that we were a prospective juror.


Re: what happend to barbara [message #318730 is a reply to message #318652] Wed, 07 May 2008 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
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So it took a whole week, and the result was that you were dismissed and never participated in this case. Have you been a little bit disappointed by such a decision of one of the attorneys? I mean, would you rather take a role in this jury?

The way you described the whole process reminds me of movies or TV shows that talk about court, attorneys, guilty and innocent people, jurors and such things. I thought that what movies show is kind of exaggeration, but - as it appears, I was wrong. It REALLY looks like this! Wow!

Your legal system is different than ours. I can't tell whether it is better or not (I think we don't have jurors at all), but I strongly believe that ours sucks (pardon my French). Croatia is a candidate to join European Union, and one of the main objections EU has is slow, inefficient and corrupted system of justice.

Oh well, it was yet another interesting story from your part of the world. Thank you for sharing!
Re: what happend to barbara [message #319042 is a reply to message #318730] Thu, 08 May 2008 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara Boehmer
Messages: 7861
Registered: November 2002
Location: California, USA
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Littlefoot wrote on Wed, 07 May 2008 13:48

Have you been a little bit disappointed by such a decision of one of the attorneys? I mean, would you rather take a role in this jury?



Yes and no, with the no far outweighing the yes. While it might be interesting and there is an obligation to civic duty and it might be nice to have a say in the outcome of cases, it is such a major hassle that I dread it. I retired early because it was too difficult for me to make it back and forth to work full time, due to an assortment of medical problems, including obstructive sleep apnea, anemia, hypothyroidism, all of which make me very tired and make it difficult to get through a day without a nap and/or caffeine. Jury duty is like going back to work full time. They are very strict about hours and only accept limited excuses. If you aren't in the hospital dying, you had better be there, or they put you in jail. I had an extremely difficult time making it through just that short period. I did my best to plan ahead and get everything out of the way that I could in advance, because it is impossible to do other things on days that you have jury duty. It takes so long to drive there, half the time that you pull into a parking lot it is full and you get referred to another lot, then you have to walk a long ways or take the shuttle. If you miss the shuttle, it is another 25 minutes before the next one. I have experienced a time when the shuttle was full and even though I was on time, I still had to wait for the next one. Then you have to wait in a lengthy line to get through the metal detector at the entrance to the court. By the time you finally get in, there is also a huge line for the women's restroom, then another huge line for the elevators. You may have to wait for the third or fourth elevator car and only one elevator in the bank seems to be working. So, you have to leave outrageously early to be assured of not being late and ending up in jail. So, all of the yardwork, housework, grocery shopping, laundry, and other weekly things that I normally spread throughout the week on days when I am healthy enough have to be crammed into the weekend, healthy or not.

You sit in a jury room, then a court room, that is packed with wall to wall chairs for hours every day, with an air conditioning system that recirculates the air breathed by thousands of people. The end result is that you get prolonged exposure to every airborne contagious disease on the planet and perhaps some others from touching papers and things that you are required to handle plus some allergies to various perfumes and colognes and such. For somebody like me who is accustomed to being at home and does not have built-up immunities to such things, it means that a few days after the start, I come down with multiple viruses and allergic reactions, which then trigger a lupus flare-up. I was bed-ridden all day yesterday, except for when I forced myself get up and feed the cats and give two of them their medicines and have a little chicken noddle soup. It started with sniffles, then a sore throat, then headache, then body aches, then I started coughing and got nauseas, then I found myself wearing sweatshirt and sweatpants, lying under a blanket, in a perfectly warm house, about 72 degrees farenheit and shivering non-stop. Then I got very hot, sat at my desk for a while and dripped sweat, with droplets dripping off my hair, wearing a polo shirt instead of sweatshirt, still with the room temperature the same. I had to feed the cats, then sit for a bit, then clean the litter, then sit for a bit, and so on, because I was tired and my legs and back hurt so bad that I could barely make it to the kitchen and back, gasping for air and trying to avoid keeling over on the floor. This is a far cry from spending 3 hours string-trimming the backyard grass or pruning a tree with a pole saw on days when I am healthy. I was so tired I could not evey think straight. I finally took a bath this morning for the first time since Tuesday morning. I figured I would sit at my desk for a while, now that I am feeling a little better, but still too sick to do anything else. I haven't even watered the yard. I guess I will find out which plants are drought-tolerant. I may end up having to lie down for a while again shortly. I ache all over too much to be able to get to sleep, but am too tired to do much of anything, even sitting at my desk for very long. There is no point in going to Kaiser to sit in their waiting room for hours, exposing myself to everything there, just to be told to go home, rest, drink fluids, and take some sort of anti-inflammatory. I have been previously advised to take ibuprofen instead of aspirin or tylenol, so that is what I am taking, plus some cough drops. I took some generic claritin on Monday and Tuesday mornings when the sniffles first started, in order to help with allergic reactions.

It also really irks me that all of the years when I was working that I would have loved to have done jury duty and gotten paid for it, my employer said they could not spare me and got an excuse and I was not allowed to go. Now that it is so difficult for me and the court only pays $15 per day, which is far below the current California minimum wage of $8 per hour, beginning on the second day, only counting the days that you are actually called into court, not the ones where you sit at home waiting for the phone to ring. If there were some legal or illegal immigrant only being paid $15 per day, the government would have a fit, but apparently has no qualms about ripping of their own citizens. Apparently your time is considered worthless once you are retired.





Re: what happend to barbara [message #319085 is a reply to message #319042] Fri, 09 May 2008 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Littlefoot
Messages: 18847
Registered: June 2005
Location: Croatia, Europe
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I'm sorry that you have medical problems; these certainly make living much more difficult than one should expect. Although diagnosis isn't the same, list of your disorders reminds me of a friend of mine who also lives in California (Mt. Shasta) - she suffers from mastocytosis, a rare disease; she is also retired because of not being able to work due to health problems.

As you've said that your "annual jury duty service" had started etc., does it really mean that every year you have to go through this painful process? Further reading suggests that you live in quite a crowded area (parking problems, court rush (elevators, toilets), ...). So, does "annual" vs. "many people" means that crime rate is that high there? Is it because of your governor Terminator? Smile I don't remember you mentioned where you live; it doesn't really matter, but - I'm just being curious. Newspaper articles you posted contain some pictures, and these streets don't look exactly as LA or SF, but hey - what do I know? Internet resources say that almost 10 million people lives in LA, while my whole country counts some 4.5 million inhabitants.

There was a joke back then about our president insulting yours. So, US threatened to smash us with a nuke. But, nothing happened. Several days later we called you and asked what's going on, where are these bombs; the reply was: "I would blow your asses up only if I could find you on the map." Smile
Re: what happend to barbara [message #319268 is a reply to message #319085] Fri, 09 May 2008 09:25 Go to previous message
Barbara Boehmer
Messages: 7861
Registered: November 2002
Location: California, USA
Senior Member
Littlefoot wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 22:28
I'm sorry that you have medical problems; these certainly make living much more difficult than one should expect. Although diagnosis isn't the same, list of your disorders reminds me of a friend of mine who also lives in California (Mt. Shasta) - she suffers from mastocytosis, a rare disease; she is also retired because of not being able to work due to health problems.

As you've said that your "annual jury duty service" had started etc., does it really mean that every year you have to go through this painful process? Further reading suggests that you live in quite a crowded area (parking problems, court rush (elevators, toilets), ...). So, does "annual" vs. "many people" means that crime rate is that high there? Is it because of your governor Terminator? :) I don't remember you mentioned where you live; it doesn't really matter, but - I'm just being curious. Newspaper articles you posted contain some pictures, and these streets don't look exactly as LA or SF, but hey - what do I know? Internet resources say that almost 10 million people lives in LA, while my whole country counts some 4.5 million inhabitants.

There was a joke back then about our president insulting yours. So, US threatened to smash us with a nuke. But, nothing happened. Several days later we called you and asked what's going on, where are these bombs; the reply was: "I would blow your asses up only if I could find you on the map." :)





I had never heard of mastocytosis, so I searched for it, and I don't believe that describes my symptoms more closely than lupus. There are many recurring symptoms and test results that I didn't mention, including a lupus butterfly rash, elevated ANA, and the fact that my father died from lupus when he was less than two years older than I am now. Also, lupus may not be the cause of all of my problems. There may be others. My mother is terminally ill with thyroid cancer. Last night I started having a racing heartbeat and blurred vision while just sitting still, and started to get worried, but it ultimately went away.

Once you have served, you are not required to serve for at least another year, however sometimes people are mistakenly summoned again too soon and required to appear with their prior paperwork in order to straighten that out. They randomly pick names from vehicle registrations and voter registrations and you might get picked from one, then get picked from the other too soon.

I live in an unincorporated (non-city) area of western Riverside County zoned for residential and light agriculture. During the years that I have lived here, I have seen many cow pastures replaced by three huge shopping centers and more huge housing tracts than that. They have had difficulties with the roads and parking not keeping up with the population growth. Downtown City of Riverside, where the Court is, is far more congested. I tried to include an image of a yahoo map of downtown riverside, but I think it was too big, so here is a link:

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=h&lat=33.97885&lon=-117.376368&zoom=17&tt=Riverside%20County%20Superior%20CT&tp=1& q1=4100%20Main%20St%2C%20Riverside%20CA%2092501

Bear in mind that crime statistics are usually based on reports and many crimes are not reported, for various reasons. Also, I bet they miss a huge population of illegal immigrants who hide during the census. Everywhere I go, things are becoming Spanish only. I see billboards in Spanish only. People tell me that their children cannot get jobs because although English is not a requirement, Spanish is, because most of the customers and co-workers are Spanish-speaking only. It is increasingly easy to live here as an illegal immigrant without ever learning English. Many businesses, such as banks and loan companies, have relaxed their identification requirements, in order to be able to do business with illegal aliens. Below is a link to Riverside County's alleged population :

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06065.html

I keep reading stories about U.S. soldiers who return from Iraq only to be murdered by gangs on the streets of California. Here is a link to an article entitled, "California homicides dwarf Iraq deaths":

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47680

And here is a link to one of many similar articles entitled, "Riverside County judge dismisses two more cases for lack of space" which describes the problem that Riverside County is having with a backlog of cases and not enough judges to hear them, resulting in not being able to try some within the required time, forcing them to dismiss many cases.

http://www.pe.com/rss/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_dismiss29.415861e.html

Cute joke. Thanks for sharing.




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